Tuesday, May 24, 2022

Copypasted neo-Nazi schlock: the Payton Gendron "manifesto"

Because we live in an era of copypasting and Photoshop, it is now extremely easy to throw together a 180-page document like the one Payton Gendron (the recent supermarket shooter) barfed out before going on his pointless attack miles from where he lived. If the reader is truly interested, they can find the untitled document here at Encyclopedia Dramatica. It will probably vanish in a year.

Above: The opening of the manifesto with the "artsy" stone beach photo and the white Nazi Sonnenrad ("sun wheel"). People on Twitter tried to link Gendron to the Azov Battalion of Ukraine*, but the sun wheel has become what the Celtic cross was to '90s skinheads, a swastika replacement.

The entire document is pieced together from endless racist sources (probably 4chan and 8kun), plus whatever other sources he could cobble together.

Above: Example of his rage at Blacks existing in America. He somehow thinks that they are "invaders", instead of the descendants of African slaves brought here by white people like himself. Either they aren't teaching history in public schools, and if they are, it's too watered down. Kids should know by high school that this was a slaver's colony first, then a slaver's republic, and then we fought a civil war to shut down the breakaway slave states. We have coddled the suburbanites for too long and their kids are becoming ahistorical neo-Nazi goons from lack of knowledge.

Below: Speaking of other sources, this graph was stolen from Charles Murray-Richard Herrnstein's book The Bell Curve (1994), and its theft was pointed out on Twitter by Daniel Harper, co-host of the anti-Nazi podcast I Don't Speak German.

Below: The rifle he used for the shooting, a Bushmaster XM-15, which is a semi-auto copy of the Colt/Armalite M-16 rifle. Notice that the rifle lacks a flash hider; Gendron goes into detail on how to modify it to full auto status. This rifle or its variants has been used in multiple shooting incidents such as: the North Hollywood shootout of 1997, the Beltway sniper attacks of 2002, the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting in 2012, the Nashville Waffle House shooting in 2018. One was captured from Islamic State fighters in the Sinjar Mountains by Kurdish Peshmerga. This gun gets around.

He also goes into great detail about the correct ammunition to buy, the Mossberg 500 shotgun he also planned to bring to his murder festival, the military helmet he bought, the Savage Arms bolt action rifle he planned to bring, and on and on. He wants other people to carry out these attacks.

Above: After the weapons scribbling, more neo-Nazi pep talk about fighting "anti-White CEOs" and drug dealers. The Daily Beast pointed out that most of the ideological content of the manifesto is copypasted from other manifestos done by other racist shooters. He had to fill 180 pages, by hook or by crook....

Below: The idiotic last page.

"Remember what you have to save"? He also uses the infamous 14 words of David Lane. What a neo-Nazi tool.

Payton Gendron, by not following Hitler's model and blowing his brains out, is going to probably spend the rest of his life in jail. Total waste of a human being who killed innocents for idiotic reasons. We will never heal as a nation as long as Nazis and Klansmen are allowed to be free.

Below: RM Brown giving Steven Crowder the business for trying to deflect that Gendron is a far-Right loon. All of the YouTube ranters either kept silent or tried to say that "this guy isn't a conservative" when in reality, the Republican Party in 2022 resembles Gendron closely.

* I disagree with the politics of that webpage, but it has proofs of my statement that conflation was going on.  Also, no matter what it says, Azov is a neo-Nazi outfit, and has been since 1991.

Wednesday, May 11, 2022

"Lycurgus, do you fear the invasion of anus?" Wikipedia-en IRC logs, March 11, 2011

All the logs we have should be turned into a book, "IRC Gibberish: the Random Noodlings of the Wikipedia Insiders."

Session Start: Fri Mar 11 18:14:28 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
03[18:14] * Now talking in #wikipedia-en
03[18:14] * Topic is 'http://status.wikimedia.org | Channel guidelines at http://bit.ly/OiAr | For a channel operator ask in #wikimedia-ops or say !ops followed by request | For *emergency* admin help say !admin followed by your request | No public logging'
03[18:14] * Set by Keegan!~chatzilla@wikimedia/Keegan on Tue Mar 08 03:38:48
[18:14] #wikipedia-en url is http://en.wikipedia.org/
03[18:14] * Kingturtle (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingturtle) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:14] <Fluffernutter> Peter-C we both know you only dare mock my lack of a man when ironholds isn't around to beat you up
08[18:14] * derp creeps behind Fluffernutter
[18:14] <MuZemike> Jessica Liao, come on down!
08[18:14] <derp> And we have a wiener!
03[18:15] * Catalan_ (~chatzilla@ip98-176-1-136.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:15] <Fluffernutter> derp is so creepy
[18:15] <voronika> the gnaa is  founded on racial and sexual orentation appreciation
[18:15] <voronika> it's right there in the name
08[18:15] <derp> I agree with voronika
03[18:15] * Retrieving #wikipedia-en modes...
15[18:15] * Catalan (~chatzilla@ip98-176-1-136.sd.sd.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[18:15] <Peter-C> :|
[18:16] <MuZemike> Have it your way, Alanna9309
03[18:16] * Resfirestar (~sam@r74-195-213-196.end1cmtc01.enidok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
15[18:16] * Resfirestar (~sam@r74-195-213-196.end1cmtc01.enidok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net) Quit (Changing host)
03[18:16] * Resfirestar (~sam@wikipedia/Res2216firestar) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:16] <Peter-C> http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/a/ac/Guido12.jpg xD
03[18:16] * Catalan_ is now known as Catalan
[18:16] <Lycurgus> did you ever see the actual GNFOS movie? It's really stupid poorly produced crap. Makes it seem like the reason the Danes are so happy is that they are fugly stupid.
08[18:16] * derp licks Peter-C
[18:16] <voronika> lycurgus: do you fear the invasion of anus?
[18:16] <Lycurgus> uh ...
[18:17] <Lycurgus> yes, yes I do.
[18:17] <Fluffernutter> ...
[18:17] <Qcoder00> Ops?
[18:17] <Qcoder00> I don't like where this is going
[18:17] <voronika> it's a film
08[18:17] * derp showers Fluffernutter with 8鈾� 04鈾� 13鈾� 12鈾� 11鈾� 09鈾� 08鈾� 04鈾� 13鈾� 12鈾� 11鈾� 09鈾� 08鈾� 04鈾� 13鈾� 12鈾�
06[18:17] * Fluffernutter snuggles derp
08[18:17] * derp snuggles Fluffernutter
[18:18] <voronika> how do you survive in the world qcoder: anything that happens you red alert
[18:18] <Lycurgus> excitable apparently
03[18:18] * snowolf2 (~snowolf@host14-159-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:18] <voronika> would hate to see him drive.  would probably call the cops if i honked the horn
[18:18] <Qcoder00> voronika:  have you ever walked over Hampstead Heath in a skirt?
[18:19] <voronika> i don't wear skirts
[18:19] <voronika> i'm not a woman
[18:19] <voronika> nor a scott
[18:19] <Lycurgus> he means a kilt
[18:19] <Fluffernutter> i know men who wear skirts
[18:19] <Fluffernutter> skirts make for easy access for everyone
[18:19] <Kingturtle> that is why i never put my pictures on the internet. they'll just wind up being used as jokes on encyclopedia dramatica
08[18:19] <derp> I agree...
[18:19] <voronika> including subway rats
[18:19] <Fluffernutter> you agree with who, derp?
15[18:20] * snowolf2 (~snowolf@host14-159-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Changing host)
03[18:20] * snowolf2 (~snowolf@wikimedia/Snowolf) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:20] <Qcoder00> Lycurgus:  I don't mean a kilt
03[18:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +o snowolf2
03[18:20] * snowolf2 sets mode: +b *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
03[18:20] * Alanna9309 (457212f2@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has left #wikipedia-en (requested by snowolf2 (Jessica Liao))
03[18:20] * snowolf2 sets mode: -o snowolf2
[18:20] <Peter-C> Kingturtle :D
06[18:20] * Peter-C mounts Kingturtle
[18:20] <sonia> o_O
[18:20] <Lycurgus> Qcoder00, acknowledged.
06[18:20] * Fluffernutter gelds Peter-C
[18:21] <voronika> and now you know why peter-c is not allowed in the zoo anymore
[18:21] <Qcoder00> Fluffernutter:   Erm...
08[18:21] <derp> He touches the animals
08[18:21] <derp> in the bad way.
06[18:21] * sonia looks up gelds
[18:21] <Fluffernutter> well, he keeps mounting things!
08[18:21] * derp snuggles with sonia.
[18:21] <Lycurgus> dragons do something like gelding, they used to call it "gafting"
[18:21] <voronika> heavy petting zoo?
[18:21] <Fluffernutter> hah
[18:21] <sonia> o_o
08[18:21] <derp> voronika, heavy penetration.
[18:21] <Fluffernutter> ...ewww
[18:21] <Qcoder00> Ops!
[18:22] <voronika> derp: he works in security?
08[18:22] <derp> Qcoder00, you're a ops trigger...
08[18:22] <derp> shut the fuck up.
08[18:22] <derp> kthx.
[18:22] <Snowolf> lol
08[18:22] <derp> And howdy Snowolf :)
[18:22] <Snowolf> Hello, uhm... Cream? :D
06[18:23] * Fluffernutter derps derp in the derp
08[18:23] * derp Fluffernutters Fluffernutter in the Fluffernutter
[18:23] <sonia> o_o
[18:23] <voronika> marklar?
[18:23] <MuZemike> Vandals are marching on Wikipedia like the commies are in Wisconsin
[18:24] <Peter-C> SNAP CRACKLE POP
[18:24] <voronika> you say commie, i say underpaid overworked middleclass
[18:24] <KFP> Provo MuZemike is provocative.
[18:24] <voronika> down with the wisconsin borgeoise
[18:24] <MuZemike> I thought the "middleclass" was the "bourgeoisie"
[18:24] <voronika> times have changed?
Session Close: Fri Mar 11 18:24:45 2011

Session Start: Fri Mar 11 18:24:45 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
[18:24] SpamTunes stopped.
11[18:24] * Disconnected
[18:24] SpamTunes stopped.
Session Close: Fri Mar 11 18:24:50 2011

Session Start: Fri Mar 11 18:30:10 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
03[18:30] * Now talking in #wikipedia-en
03[18:30] * Topic is 'http://status.wikimedia.org | Channel guidelines at http://bit.ly/OiAr | For a channel operator ask in #wikimedia-ops or say !ops followed by request | For *emergency* admin help say !admin followed by your request | No public logging'
03[18:30] * Set by Keegan!~chatzilla@wikimedia/Keegan on Tue Mar 08 03:41:25
15[18:30] * Delta (~Delta@unaffiliated/betacommand) Quit (Disconnected by services)
[18:30] #wikipedia-en url is http://en.wikipedia.org/
[18:30] <Guerillero> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23kmhc3P8U
[18:30] <killiondude> rapist
[18:30] <Guerillero> the video
15[18:30] * iaaasi (4f7598f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip. Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
03[18:30] * Delta (~Delta@unaffiliated/betacommand) has joined #wikipedia-en
03[18:30] * marduk (~sylvania@cpe-174-109-037-078.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia-en
08[18:30] * derp snuggles with killiondude.
15[18:31] * mindspillage (~kat@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[18:31] <Fluffernutter> is it weird that when i buy clothes i have to try them on for my sister before I'm sure I can go out in public in them?
[18:32] <killiondude> i do that with my dog
[18:32] <Fluffernutter> ...does your dog have fashion sense?
[18:32] <voronika> does your sister?
[18:32] <killiondude> it has inno sense
[18:33] <voronika> perhaps the dog sniffs him... if it's bad, he changes.
[18:33] <MuZemike> But then again, I will be in the financial/commercial/entertainment/etc. capital of the world, starting tomorrow.
08[18:33] <derp> If it gets too friendly
08[18:33] <derp> run like fuck...
[18:33] <Fluffernutter> my sister has way more fashion sense than i do
[18:33] <Fluffernutter> which is why i run things by her
[18:34] <killiondude> my lips are chapped no chapstick at work
[18:34] <killiondude> LICKING LIPS ALL DAY
[18:34] <Fluffernutter> STOP DOING THAT
[18:34] <killiondude> i can't :-x
08[18:34] * derp hands killiondude some lip balm.
[18:34] <killiondude> i should write a haiku
08[18:34] <derp> there you go
03[18:34] * AzaToth (~azatoth@2001:5c0:150d:7d00:211:11ff:feb0:2f1a) has joined #wikipedia-en
08[18:34] <derp> use that.
15[18:34] * AzaToth (~azatoth@2001:5c0:150d:7d00:211:11ff:feb0:2f1a) Quit (Changing host)
03[18:34] * AzaToth (~azatoth@wikipedia/AzaToth) has joined #wikipedia-en
06[18:35] * killiondude pours gasoline on derp.
08[18:35] * derp pours gasoline on killiondude.
06[18:35] * killiondude slaps derp.
08[18:35] * derp showers killiondude with 8鈾� 04鈾� 13鈾� 12鈾� 11鈾� 09鈾� 08鈾� 04鈾� 13鈾� 12鈾� 11鈾� 09鈾� 08鈾� 04鈾� 13鈾� 12鈾�
15[18:35] * Teles (~Teles@wikimedia/teles) Quit (Quit: eita... esqueci minhas roupa no varal e t谩 chovendo)
[18:35] <Maximillion> derp 鈾� 鈾� 鈾�
[18:36] <voronika> Licking lips dries them | but chapstick makes them oily | first world problems here
08[18:36] <derp> <3
08[18:36] <derp> 4鈾� 13鈾� 12鈾�
[18:36] <Fluffernutter> chapstick doesn't make them oily
15[18:36] * thefr34k (FR34K@cpe-174-110-155-103.carolina.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
[18:36] <voronika> i needed two syllables
[18:36] <marduk> hi
[18:36] <geniice> Fluffernutter you can't go wrong with a classic titanium backed kevlar with ballistic ceramics highlights look
06[18:37] * Fluffernutter blinks
[18:37] <Fluffernutter> er, i'm saving that for a special occasion?
[18:38] <voronika> kevlar is stylish | but will not block an icepick | pick your fights wisely
03[18:38] * {Soap} (~Soap@wikipedia/soap) has joined #wikipedia-en
15[18:39] * Falcorian (~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian) Quit (Quit: Leaving.)
03[18:40] * thefr34k (thefr34k@cpe-174-110-155-103.carolina.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia-en
03[18:40] * Falcorian (~Falcorian@wikipedia/Falcorian) has joined #wikipedia-en
03[18:41] * Microchip08 is now known as MC8
03[18:42] * ola (~user@unaffiliated/ola) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:42] <killiondude> voronika: <3
[18:42] <killiondude> Haikus make everything better.
[18:42] <voronika> peter-c loves coq | but cannot pick the right vin | get the pinot noir
[18:43] <voronika> haikus make the world go round
08[18:43] <derp> mmmmmm
08[18:43] <derp> coq au vin
[18:43] <voronika> i used to write haikus in comments when i coded
08[18:43] <derp> oh Fluffernutter
[18:43] <Fluffernutter> eh?
08[18:43] <derp> want to learn some ez french?
[18:43] <Fluffernutter> sure
[18:43] <KFP> voronika: ...But more powerful forces make it go geoid.
08[18:43] <derp> Do you know how to say "Swimming pool" in french?
03[18:44] * Mikemoral (~Mikemoral@wikimedia/mikemoral) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:44] <Fluffernutter> i'd guess some variation of "piscene"
[18:44] <{Soap}> piscine?
[18:44] <Olipro> *piscine
[18:44] <voronika> une piscine
[18:44] <{Soap}> three of us guessed it
08[18:44] <derp> Oui
[18:44] <killiondude> Silhouetted shapes, | sticky fingers from their crimes. | Waste not thine butter.
[18:44] <voronika> fran莽ais est trop drole
[18:44] <Fluffernutter> spanish cognates ftw
08[18:44] <derp> a good pronoucnication is "PISS_IN"
03[18:45] * OlEnglish (~me@wikipedia/OlEnglish) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:45] <killiondude> Saran wrap in hand | moon glistens off plastic sheets | poor work defines you
[18:45] <voronika> i may have to write recipes as haiku
[18:45] <Fluffernutter> killiondude is creeping me out
15[18:45] * fr33kman|away (~fr33kman@0278119a.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: Exit, stage left)
[18:45] <killiondude> someone attacked my car with butter and saran wrap
[18:45] <sonia> o_O
08[18:45] <derp> lolnice
[18:45] <killiondude> I decided to write a series of haikus.
[18:45] <Olipro> je vais pisser dans la piscine
08[18:45] <derp> 't was me.
08[18:45] <derp> yes Olipro <3
03[18:46] * fr33kman (~fr33kman@wikipedia/fr33kman) has joined #wikipedia-en
06[18:46] * Olipro knows his GCSE french dammit
[18:46] <Fluffernutter> french is the language i never took
03[18:46] * bys (~Til@ has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:46] <killiondude> je veux ton amour et je veux ta revanche
[18:46] <KFP> Fluffernutter: "The"?
[18:47] <Fluffernutter> well, i spread my language wings rather broadly
[18:47] <KFP> Fluffernutter: Ymm盲rr盲n.
[18:48] <Kingturtle> is there an article about the culture that has 12 words for snow?
[18:48] <oona> inuit?
[18:48] <killiondude> eskimos?
[18:48] <Fluffernutter> English, Spanish, Czech, Basque, Amharic, Italian
[18:48] <Olipro> Fluffernutter: how broadly?
[18:48] <{Soap}> there's [[Eskimo words for snow]]
[18:48] <Olipro> dang it, timing
06[18:48] * Fluffernutter tries to think if there were more
[18:48] <{Soap}> which states that it's basically a myth
[18:48] <{Soap}> though not, technically, false
[18:48] <Fluffernutter> i've forgotten most of each of those other than spanish though
[18:48] <{Soap}> they do have 12 words for snow. But then, if you think about it, so does English
[18:49] <Fluffernutter> inuktitut is also agglutinative, which makes it hard to determine what is "a word" for snow
[18:49] <{Soap}> snow, flurry, blizzard, drift, plus things like sleet, slush, etc
[18:49] <{Soap}> I made a list once
[18:49] <{Soap}> including some rather obscure terms that most people wouldnt use in day to day life but that are still good English
[18:50] <Qcoder00> Sorry to bother the channel, any experts on reactor design in?
[18:50] <Fluffernutter> ...no
03[18:50] * Daley (~Daley@ has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:50] <Olipro> Qcoder00: that depends on whether or not you're Iranian
[18:50] <Qcoder00> Oilpro:  Oh right .
[18:51] <{Soap}> 'oilpro'  lol
[18:51] <Qcoder00> I'm NOT Iranian , I'm British
[18:51] <Qcoder00> I need someone that's familar with reactor designs to help deal with some ZOMG The JAPANESE NUKE PLANT'S GOING TO BLOW! type crazies in #defocus :(
[18:52] <{Soap}> just ignore them
[18:52] <Fluffernutter> ^
[18:52] <Qcoder00> Soap: Yeah,
03[18:52] * tto (~this_that@203-158-38-58.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #wikipedia-en
15[18:52] * tto (~this_that@203-158-38-58.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Changing host)
03[18:52] * tto (~this_that@unaffiliated/tto) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:53] <Olipro> Qcoder00: well, according to BarkingFish, who's also in here, they've lost control of the pressure release system
[18:53] <Fluffernutter> what is defocus?
[18:53] <Fluffernutter> other than "a chat room"
[18:54] <Daley> the opposite to focus
[18:54] <Fluffernutter> ....gr
03[18:54] * IS|Away is now known as IShadowed
[18:54] <Fluffernutter> ishy :D
[18:54] <Olipro> it's the disembowelled corpse of #freenode-social
[18:55] <MuZemike> lol, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:2011_Wisconsin_protests#Historical_context.3F
[18:55] <MuZemike> "With more than 11,000 news articles on Wisconsin protests already indexed by Google, do you really believe anyone is going to have a serious problem finding appropriate sources?"
[18:55] <IShadowed> Hi Fluffernutter
[18:55] <Fluffernutter> should i...join ##defocus?
[18:56] <foks> If you daaaaaaaare
03[18:56] * StevenW (~stevenwal@wikimedia/steven-walling) has left #wikipedia-en
[18:56] <killiondude> It's interesting to say the least.
[18:56] <killiondude> Fluffernutter: have you exposed yourself to ##politics ?
[18:57] <Fluffernutter> i have not and will not
[18:57] <Olipro> Fluffernutter: it's #defocus
[18:57] <Qcoder00> Fluffernutter:  you mean #defocus
[18:57] <killiondude> hah.
03[18:57] * russet (~yukon@c-69-254-201-28.hsd1.az.comcast.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
15[18:57] * russet (~yukon@c-69-254-201-28.hsd1.az.comcast.net) Quit (Changing host)
03[18:57] * russet (~yukon@wikimedia/mono) has joined #wikipedia-en
[18:57] <Olipro> it's the official freenode social channel
[18:57] <Olipro> generally family-friendly
[18:57] <killiondude> official unofficial crazyville.
[18:57] <Olipro> if you want trash, see ##politics
[18:57] <Olipro> or rather, don't. seriously, you don't want to go there
06[18:57] * Fluffernutter doesn't want trash
[18:57] <IShadowed> Motherfucking family-oriented shit
[18:57] <killiondude> hey there.
[18:57] <killiondude> ##politics can be entertaining
[18:57] <IShadowed> hey.
[18:58] <Olipro> it can
[18:58] <killiondude> it was when the wikileaks stuff was happening
[18:58] <IShadowed> "entertaining"
[18:58] <Olipro> it's usually people railing against "niggers" destroying the country
[18:58] <russet> There's always  #familyfriendly
[18:58] <Guerillero> why are you inclusing two #s
[18:58] <Olipro> or alternatively "jews" taking it over
[18:58] <IShadowed> Someone high as fuck is 'entertaining' too, doesn't mean crap
[18:58] <{Soap}> some channels have two #'s
[18:58] <Guerillero> O.o
[18:58] <{Soap}> it's one of the quirks of freenode
[18:58] <Olipro> if a channel has 2 #'s then it's an about channel
[18:58] <killiondude> un nuevo mundo para Guerillero
06[18:58] * Fluffernutter stares
[18:59] <Olipro> for example, it's ##windows because it's about windows
[18:59] <Olipro> if a channel is official, it gets one #
[18:59] <killiondude> instead of owned by windows
[18:59] <Olipro> right
[18:59] <russet> There's always  #familyfriendly
[18:59] <killiondude> So you've said.
[18:59] <killiondude> [15:58:34]	<russet>	There's always #familyfriendly
06[18:59] * Fluffernutter is not, generally, family friendly
[18:59] <sonia> ^
03[19:00] * IShadowed is now known as IS|Away
[19:00] <killiondude> Fluffernutter: take it to ##politics, please
[19:00] <Guerillero> ##politics looks borring
[19:00] <killiondude> !!!
06[19:00] * Fluffernutter looks at killiondude
[19:00] <killiondude> Sheath thine eyes.
[19:00] <killiondude> Sheathe thine eyes
15[19:00] * Jayflux (~jay_knows@cpc3-dudl6-0-0-cust14.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
06[19:00] * Fluffernutter shoots lasers out of her eyes at killiondude
[19:01] <Fluffernutter> derp, come cook me some dinner
03[19:01] * sonia is now known as sonia|lunch
03[19:01] * Sven_Manguard is now known as Sven|Food
06[19:01] * Qcoder00 can't recall the phrase thats in the Day the Earth Stood Still...
[19:01] <Fluffernutter> klaatu baradu nikto, or something close to it
[19:01] <MuZemike> Welcome to die! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdAmkx8eAos
[19:02] <Guerillero> how nice of you
[19:02] <Fluffernutter> ooh, i was so close. It's "Klaatu barada nikto!"
15[19:02] * Daley (~Daley@ Quit
03[19:02] * Logan__ (~Logan_@ool-4579218d.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
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[19:05] <MuZemike> wtf? Japan got hit by an 8.9 earthquake and tsunami
[19:06] <Fluffernutter> yes
[19:06] <foks> ...uh
[19:06] <foks> Almost a day ago
[19:06] <Fluffernutter> ^
03[19:06] * Logan__ is now known as Logan_
[19:06] <foks> Welcome to yesterday, population: MuZemike
[19:06] <killiondude> fail
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[19:06] <Guerillero> they have a reacter that is going crazy
[19:06] <killiondude> their reactor is reacting
[19:06] <foks> Yeah, cooling's not working
[19:07] <Logan_> whoa - Barack Obama was elected President
[19:07] <foks> So we could (could) be looking at a nuclear disaster on top of a tsunami
[19:07] <Guerillero> the worst thing that could happen is a meltdown
[19:07] <foks> Logan_, lmao
[19:07] <MuZemike> Cooling is kind of a big thing with nucular reactors.
03[19:07] * RudyValencia (me@unaffiliated/rudyvalencia) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:08] <voronika> logan: show me the birth certificate
[19:08] <MuZemike> Must be global warming
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[19:09] <MuZemike> 5.4 earthquake hit Soviet China.
[19:09] <MuZemike> Oh wait, they're not really Soviet anymore
[19:09] <voronika> whole lotta shakin going on
[19:09] <MuZemike> Go fuck your cousin or something
[19:09] <voronika> communist china
[19:10] <killiondude> do you mean: communist?
[19:10] <voronika> they're still communist... they just redefine communism
15[19:10] * amparoteamo1 (~amparotea@unaffiliated/ampiyoteamo) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:10] <geniice> 3 reactors having cooling problems now
15[19:10] * killiondude (~chatzilla@wikimedia/Killiondude) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
08[19:10] * derp does some horizontal drilling under Fluffernutter's place.
[19:10] <Fluffernutter> ...er, kinky?
[19:10] <MuZemike> Hey, I'm a stupid American. If it's Red, it's Soviet. :-p
[19:10] <geniice> if those reactors do cook off I think I'm going to maintain my present position
[19:11] <voronika> muzemike: like 1/3 of our national flag?
[19:11] <MuZemike> I said "stupid", not "dumb"
[19:11] <MuZemike> And I also said "Red", not "red".
[19:12] <voronika> good, cause i believe dumb refers to someone who can't speak.
03[19:12] * mindspillage (~kat@44.sub-75-197-70.myvzw.com) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:12] <voronika> though a bit dated.
15[19:12] * mindspillage (~kat@44.sub-75-197-70.myvzw.com) Quit (Changing host)
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[19:12] <MuZemike> So you're not very gay, then.
03[19:12] * Guerillero is now known as Guerillero|dinne
[19:12] <Fluffernutter> kat, have you caught up on your facebook messages?
[19:13] <mindspillage> no--I am on my way to rehearsal and just answering mail. :-P
[19:13] <Fluffernutter> tsk tsk
[19:14] <Fluffernutter> should i risk having two meals in one day?
[19:15] <mindspillage> and do something vaguely normal? Pfft.
15[19:15] * tto (~this_that@unaffiliated/tto) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:15] <Fluffernutter> well it's not the normalcy, it's the risk of getting sick afterward
03[19:15] * sonia|lunch is now known as sonia
[19:15] <Qcoder00> In terms of reactors a meltdown is unlikely.
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[19:17] <MuZemike> That must be why I'm seeing [[Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant]] on Recent Changes quite a bit recently.
[19:18] <Logan_> oh God... http://boards.4chan.org/v/res/89174181
03[19:18] * Laura|Away is now known as LauraHale
06[19:19] * mindspillage wanders off again.
[19:19] <Qcoder00> 4Chan's going to do it's own Tusnami?  :(
[19:19] <Qcoder00> MUZemike: Hmm
03[19:19] * terroon (t@ip68-230-139-62.ri.ri.cox.net) has joined #wikipedia-en
[19:20] <MuZemike> OK, this is odd.
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[19:20] <MuZemike> I have "Hide minor edits from the watchlist" enabled, but when a minor edit is made, that article completely disappears from the watchlist.
15[19:21] * terron (t@unaffiliated/terron) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:21] <MuZemike> Shouldn't it go to the last non-minor edit in that article?
[19:21] <oona> nah
[19:21] <oona> it doesn't work like that :P
[19:22] <MuZemike> Wouldn't that make sense, though?
[19:22] <oona> most definitely
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15[19:23] * mindspillage (~kat@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001) Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
[19:25] <Guerillero|dinne> them again
03[19:25] * Guerillero|dinne is now known as Guerillero
[19:26] <Fluffernutter> owfuck
[19:27] <Guerillero> what fluff
[19:27] <Fluffernutter> stomachache is back
06[19:27] * Fluffernutter curls into a ball, whines
[19:28] <foks> ):
[19:28] <MuZemike> And I will pose that question right now on [[WP:VPT]]
[19:28] <geniice> A former TV psychic whose partner is accused of murdering their two children has been jailed for child sex abuse.
[19:29] <geniice> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12713182
[19:29] <geniice> thats one messed up family
[19:30] <MuZemike> Say the word, and I'll have [[Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant]] protected
[19:31] <geniice> I don't think that will help
[19:32] <Guerillero> why not
[19:32] <Fluffernutter> well, shit: http://www.metafilter.com/101461/A-notable-issue-with-Wikipedia
[19:32] <Fluffernutter> "Meanwhile the case of the deletion (and restoration) of the article on the remarkably notable Old Man Murray highlights the bad decisions that can occur when insular admins and editors favor deletionist sentiment and bureaucratic rule-waving over the input of outsiders and a basic level of research."
[19:33] <geniice> Guerillero because they need more coolant some pumps and electricty. Protection not so much
[19:33] <MuZemike> Must be the fucking deletionists.
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[19:33] <Guerillero> Meanwhile the case of the deletion (and restoration) of the article on the remarkably notable Old Man Murray highlights the bad decisions that can occur when insular admins and editors favor deletionist sentiment and bureaucratic rule-waving over the input of outsiders and a basic level of research.
[19:33] <Demiurge1000> yeah but it'll stop people vandalising the article if the place in question has a total meltdown and burns through the centre of the earth and comes out in Argentina
[19:34] <Qcoder00> A meltdown is unlikely
[19:34] <Guerillero> they are just unhappy that it was their pet
[19:34] <MuZemike> Guerillero: Really?
[19:34] <Demiurge1000> Qcoder00: That's why I'm wondering why all the excitement
[19:35] <Demiurge1000> I just like to think worst case scenario, though. Black humour or something
[19:35] <geniice> Demiurge1000 because it's been a while since we last had a meltdown
[19:35] <Qcoder00> Because some people don't really understand nuclear power (or reactor deisign)
[19:35] <geniice> including the japanese aparently
[19:35] <Demiurge1000> I have to admit, I've never designed a nuclear reactor
[19:35] <Qcoder00> geniice: Does wikipedia have an article on 'Nuclear incidents'?
[19:35] <MuZemike> Next time I'll write [[Erik Wolpaw is gay]] because deleting that would be the same thing.
[19:35] <sonia> [00:35:35] <Demiurge1000> I have to admit, I've never designed a nuclear reactor er...
[19:35] <Demiurge1000> I would imagine it does
[19:36] <geniice> Qcoder00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents
[19:36] <Demiurge1000> sonia: ?
[19:36] <sonia> where the hell did reftools go?
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[19:36] <Qcoder00> geniice: Thanks
[19:36] <sonia> Demiurge1000: just a lulzy statement
15[19:36] * thefr34k (thefr34k@cpe-174-110-155-103.carolina.res.rr.com) Quit
[19:36] <Demiurge1000> lol
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[19:37] <geniice> look they need something to report about
[19:37] <Fluffernutter> reftools went away. proveit took its place
[19:37] <geniice> and aparently the major news organisations don't have many correspondents in japan
[19:38] <geniice> and most of the authorities were waiting till dawn to say anything
[19:38] <Demiurge1000> so they are just makign shit up instead, as per usual
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[19:38] <geniice> the one thing that was releasing reports was the nuclear plant
[19:38] <geniice> a meltdown is unlikely though
[19:39] <geniice> worse case senario they just pump whatever water they have to hand through the reactor with a hand pump
[19:39] <Demiurge1000> geniice is employed by the nuclear industry to avoid panic... geniice says "a meltdown is unlikely" once every 8 minutes
[19:39] <geniice> oh no my senario is plently reason to panic
15[19:39] * Olipro (~Olipro@uncyclopedia/pdpc.21for7.olipro) Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
[19:40] <geniice> because if they do do that they will have a bunch of radioactive water they will need to dump somewhere (probably as steam into the atmosphere
[19:41] <sonia> gah
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[19:41] <sonia> where did all my tools go
[19:42] <sonia> reftools is missing, cite4wiki works intermittently
[19:42] <geniice> I think they've been replaced
[19:42] <{Soap}> I think some of them were broken by the 1.17 upgrade
[19:42] <sonia> cite4wiki is a firefox addon :P
[19:42] <MuZemike> Oh, and BTW, I !voted "Keep" on two AFDs today.
[19:42] <sonia> not sure why it's borked
[19:42] <geniice> japan up to 5 reactors with problems
[19:42] <geniice> don't panic
[19:43] <MuZemike> *three (sorry)
[19:43] <geniice> 5
[19:43] <{Soap}> are you known for being a deletionist?
[19:43] <MuZemike> Not really, no.
[19:43] <sonia> {Soap}: no, he's a fascist who's taking away freedom of speech
[19:43] <MuZemike> But I'm also not know for being an inclusionist, either.
[19:43] <geniice> 3 at Fukushima-Daini and 2 at Fukushima-Daiichi . But don't panic
[19:44] <MuZemike> Though the nominator of the AFD of [[The Angry Video Game Nerd]] needs a {{trout}}
[19:44] <{Soap}> ok
[19:45] <{Soap}> I never really go to AfD unless I want something deleted
03[19:45] * Guerillero is now known as Guerillero|awk
[19:45] <{Soap}> so, even though I consider myself an inclusionist, my voting record is almost certainly mostly 'delete'
[19:46] <{Soap}> I used to keep track of 'em
[19:46] <MuZemike> But I think there are a lot of people who create articles just for the sake of creating articles, too.
[19:47] <sonia> heh, that's what I"m doing now
[19:47] <sonia> because I'm bored and esoteric topics are fun
15[19:47] * Resfirestar (~sam@wikipedia/Res2216firestar) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[19:47] <MuZemike> Actually, that was poorly worded
[19:49] <MuZemike> Because it's a de facto requirement that new users create an article to be a valid WP contributor, it's normally something which is either redundant or overlapping to another related topic.
[19:50] <geniice> not run across that requirement
[19:50] <MuZemike> But that's all we focus on as far as newcomers are concerned, do we not?
[19:50] <geniice> no
[19:50] <geniice> lots of newcomers start by editing existing articles
[19:51] <MuZemike> Like me, for instance
15[19:51] * Cyrius (~t-bone@cpe-67-10-123-24.gt.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Where are we going, and what's with the handbasket?)
[19:51] <MuZemike> But anyways, not many people care about them.
06[19:51] * Fluffernutter didn;t write an article until i'd been around almost 3 years
[19:51] <{Soap}> there's a few whove made it all the way to being admins with no articles. But yes, I know what youre saying
[19:52] <{Soap}> mine are mostly just stubs
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[19:52] <Fluffernutter> i have one GA (which is that way pretty much purely by chance) and a bunch of stubs pretty much
[19:52] <Fluffernutter> well, by "bunch" i mean, like, three
06[19:53] * Fluffernutter is never going to be An Article Creator
[19:53] <MuZemike> Don't get me started on those who oppose RFAs of those who really don't create new articles.
15[19:53] * Mitchazenia (~richardpe@ool-18e45e6e.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[19:53] <Snowolf> MuZemike: I dunno, I belive I've always been welcome as a contributor, and I haven't made a single content edit, let alone article
[19:53] <{Soap}> there's been very few opposes like that in recent months
[19:54] <Fluffernutter> Snowolf: there's a difference between being welcome, being welcomeD, and being tolerated.  Non-writers often get the impression they're only the latter
[19:54] <{Soap}> SandyGoergia was doing it, but even she seems to have stopped
[19:54] <MuZemike> Because, as geniice said, there are many out there are help improve existing articles or make their marks in their specific points of interest.
03[19:54] * Olipro_ is now known as Olipro
[19:54] <{Soap}> you havent made a single content edit??
[19:54] <Snowolf> Correct
[19:54] <Fluffernutter> you're active on another language, aren' tyou Snowolf?
[19:55] <geniice> creating articles these days is hard
06[19:55] * Fluffernutter nods
[19:55] <Snowolf> Technically yes, I have ~490 edits on itwiki, including a short stub made a year ago or so
15[19:55] * p858snake|l_ (~p858snake@unaffiliated/p858snake) Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[19:55] <Snowolf> but enwiki is my home wiki and no, not a single content edit -- article writing isn't my forte
[19:55] <geniice> I can think of maybe 3 topics off the top of my head
[19:55] <{Soap}> there's a few articles I could create if I had enough free time
[19:56] <{Soap}> BLP's of people who have articles on other wikipedias is always a good place to start
[19:56] <{Soap}> although some of the other wikis have very low notability/verifiability standards
[19:56] <Demiurge1000> As predicted... Wikipedia:Requests for page protection鈥�; 00:46 . . (+276) . . NellieBly (talk | contribs) (Requesting semi-protection of Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant.
[19:56] <Demiurge1000> cue geniice again :)
[19:56] <geniice> Mine were a couple of local history ones and 5 brigade
[19:57] <Fluffernutter> i don't really have the attention span for article creation, is the thing. I'm rewriting in my userspace an article that is currently a stub and could totally be a GA or FA, but I doubt I'll care about it long enough to get it to either of those
[19:57] <Fluffernutter> in fact, i'm halfway through the rewrite and have already lost steam
[19:57] <MuZemike> But then again, I am also slowly compiling various works and stuff on video game history.
[19:58] <sonia> Fluffernutter: get a collab partner :)
[19:59] <Fluffernutter> sonia, i've never quite...gotten the hang of collaborating. It's not that I oppose it, it's just that I don't know how to do it
[19:59] <MuZemike> So I'm more of a research-oriented person and not just some "Internet-savvy twank"
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[20:00] <geniice> I write articles so I have somewhere to put pics
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[20:00] <geniice> okey not always true but it tends to be
[20:00] <geniice> And I did start a lot of our british articles back in the day
[20:01] <geniice> back before references
06[20:01] * Fluffernutter was always the kid in school who didn't want to have to work with a group because i knew the product would be better if i worked alone
[20:01] <geniice> hmmp there is no way to take a photo in a dark smokey room that works
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[20:05] <voronika> geniice: what kind of camera do you have?
[20:05] <geniice> pansonic GF1
[20:05] <OlEnglish> does anyone know if its possible to search for text strings within images?
[20:05] <OlEnglish> not just vector images but raster images too
[20:05] <bys> @olenglish, no
[20:06] <geniice> OlEnglish no
[20:06] <OlEnglish> darn
[20:06] <bys> OlEnglish, you may search in the image description pages
[20:06] <geniice> okey technicaly it can be done through optical character recognition softwear
[20:06] <OlEnglish> there's no text-recognition like software out there that can scan a set of images for text?
[20:06] <geniice> yes
[20:06] <geniice> the stuff that comes with scanners and the like
[20:06] <bys> type "Image: sometext" to full-search "sometext"
[20:06] <geniice> but it's computationaly expensive
[20:07] <voronika> is there much movement in the room?
[20:07] <voronika> or just hte smoke?
[20:07] <OlEnglish> bys: i don't just mean in wikipedia
[20:07] <geniice> voronika it's a 19th century fortificiation and I was the only one in it
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[20:08] <{Soap}> well, if youre willing to do a batch OCR job on the whole stakc of images, itll produce a set of text documents as the output
[20:08] <voronika> nice
[20:08] <{Soap}> then you can search that
[20:08] <OlEnglish> i bet google images will come up with something in the future
[20:08] <OlEnglish> soap: that would probably be huge though wouldn't it
[20:08] <{Soap}> Google Images did a failed experiment to get people to label all the images in their storage
[20:09] <OlEnglish> oh really? neat
[20:09] <{Soap}> I dont think it was failed because it didnt work, it's just that they have so many new images coming in all the time that people couldnt keep up
[20:09] <voronika> playing with the fstop and iso settings, you could theoretically get more light, even with the smoke, but the movement of light due to smoke may fuzz some parts.
[20:09] <voronika> i used to shoot full ballrooms at half illumination using a f 8.0 but i'd shoot with a longer exposure
[20:09] <{Soap}> http://images.google.com/imagelabeler/
[20:09] <{Soap}> I guess it still exists
[20:09] <voronika> with an iso adjustment, you can get some decent shots without overexposing
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[20:10] <geniice> voronika won't work. the problem is that the place is very dark but with holes in the walls that let light in so that approach just gets horrific blown highlights
[20:11] <voronika> no fun
[20:11] <geniice> voronika no what I need is to go back there when there is no smoke with an extremely powerful flash unit
[20:11] <OlEnglish> wow that's kinda cool
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[20:11] <OlEnglish> that google image labeler
[20:11] <{Soap}> yeah it is
[20:11] <voronika> ive had luck shooting two shots of the same room, one for the dark, sultry look, one for the windows
[20:11] <voronika> then blending in ps
[20:12] <{Soap}> I dunno, maybe theyve limited it to only highly-searched images to solve the problem of the endless spillover from blogs etc
[20:12] <voronika> but not as artistic
[20:12] <voronika> and you end up retexturing a bit
[20:12] <MuZemike> Stop! Don't move! http://i.imgur.com/gIoSS.jpg
[20:12] <voronika> i kinda want to go shoot clinton castle at battery park around sunrise
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[20:13] <voronika> the rustic look of the fortress with the steel and glass towering behind
[20:13] <{Soap}> you cant even back up
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[20:14] <geniice> voronika actualy the inside of the fort consists of a chamber about 100 yards long. I'd practicaly need a series of magnesioum flairs to do it justice
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[20:15] <voronika> haha yea, i can imagine
[20:15] <geniice> voronika here's one of the pics that suffered from smoke issues http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gun_casement_inside_the_hilsea_lines_.JPG
[20:15] <geniice> bunch of kids had lit a fire by the enterance
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Session Close: Fri Mar 11 20:31:16 2011

Session Start: Fri Mar 11 20:31:16 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
11[20:31] * Disconnected
Session Close: Fri Mar 11 21:06:32 2011

Session Start: Fri Mar 11 21:11:28 2011
Session Ident: #wikipedia-en
03[21:11] * Now talking in #wikipedia-en
03[21:11] * Topic is 'http://status.wikimedia.org | Channel guidelines at http://bit.ly/OiAr | For a channel operator ask in #wikimedia-ops or say !ops followed by request | For *emergency* admin help say !admin followed by your request | No public logging'
03[21:11] * Set by Keegan!~chatzilla@wikimedia/Keegan on Tue Mar 08 03:41:25
[21:11] #wikipedia-en url is http://en.wikipedia.org/
12[21:11] -ChanServ- [#wikipedia-fr] Canal en UTF-8. La diffusion publique de journaux de ce canal est interdite. Merci de lire http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Canal_IRC et de contribuer 脿 la bonne humeur du canal. Bonne journ茅e !
[21:11] <LiteralKa> and at this point, everyone's so dug in to their opinions that a RFF is needed
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[21:14] <dcoetzee> Ahh, GNAA, is it still holding the record for most deletion discussions?
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[21:14] <voronika> dcoetzee: did thye beat ED?
[21:14] <dcoetzee> ED is pretty decidedly notable by now.
[21:15] <voronika> but it went through a long time of rejection
[21:15] <dcoetzee> True.
[21:15] <dcoetzee> I used to have a list.
[21:15] <dcoetzee> Not sure where it went...
[21:15] <{Soap}> GNAA holds the record by a very wide margin
[21:15] <{Soap}> there's not much chance anything else will ever beat it
06[21:15] * foks still has no idea what this GNAA is
[21:16] <voronika> put up the  record: that will make a decent source
[21:16] <{Soap}> it had 18 AfD's, and the next highest is like 8
[21:16] <dcoetzee> Daniel Brandt had a lot too.
[21:16] <LiteralKa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:LiteralKa/GNAABox
15[21:16] * marduk (~sylvania@cpe-174-109-037-078.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Quit: Byeeee!)
08[21:16] <derp> lol
[21:16] <LiteralKa> {Soap}: 18 serious ones
08[21:16] <derp> Daniel Brandt
[21:16] <voronika> sounds like we need more afds
08[21:16] <derp> I remember the hard trolling on it
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[21:24] <{Soap}> I couldnt find a lot of AfD's for Brandy
[21:24] <{Soap}> *Brandt
[21:24] <{Soap}> a lot of deletions, yes, but just one AfD
[21:24] <{Soap}> unless there was a nonstandard naming scheme
[21:25] <LiteralKa> But yeah, an RFF is up for gnaa if anyone cares :3 :D :3
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[21:25] <LiteralKa> {Soap}: in cases like that, i use "what links here"
[21:25] <LiteralKa> chances are the afds link to the page in question
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[21:28] <Snowolf> What's an RFF?
[21:28] <LiteralKa> request for feedback
[21:28] <Snowolf> Ooooh I see, thanks :)
[21:29] <LiteralKa> np
[21:29] <Logan_> Snowolf: I expected more from you as a sysop :P
06[21:29] * sonia puts Logan_ in a dryer
[21:29] <Snowolf> Logan_: not my area of expertise :)
06[21:29] * Logan_ puts sonia in a washing machine
08[21:29] <derp> sonia, with or no bounce?
[21:30] <{Soap}> lol
[21:30] <{Soap}> I didnt know what it meant either
08[21:30] * derp adds a bounce sheet.
08[21:31] <derp> sonia, with or no fabric softener
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[21:31] <sonia> ooh, softener
[21:31] <sonia> hrm, I think I'm soft enough as-is, derp
[21:33] <voronika> have you tried the softener bars?
[21:34] <voronika> you stick them in the dryer and they wear down over time
08[21:35] <derp> nah
08[21:35] <derp> i like to vary them fagrances
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[21:54] <OlEnglish> http://wcatwc.arh.noaa.gov/2011/03/11/lhvpd9/01/webetalhvpd9-01.txt
06[21:54] * OlEnglish is starting to get worried
[21:54] <OlEnglish> i'm on the west coast
[21:54] <sonia> ...heh
[21:55] <sonia> OlEnglish: it's been piddly here
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[22:01] <Daley> sonia: Have you looked at the lead paragraph of my subpage? Also look at the footnotes in the lead paragraph for me, please.  Make any changes you think to improve it for that lead paragraph.
[22:01] <sonia> in a moment Daley; having computer issues
[22:02] <Daley> It's ok.
[22:03] <MuZemike> Pennies are bullshit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FffTJk-gFKc
06[22:05] * Daley thought MuZemike said Penis.
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[22:05] <Guerillero> head out of the gutter
[22:07] <Daley> we dont have pennies, but we have 5 cent and 10 cents which gives us the shits.
[22:08] <voronika> daley: stop eating coins?
[22:09] <Amgine> [[n:File:20110311Houshu.ogg]] <- too big/slow?
[22:09] <Daley> Never thought of that
[22:10] <Daley> stores here, put prices at like 5.94 or 10.99 or 10.33 - Now thats pretty stupid.
[22:12] <Guerillero> thats cool
[22:12] <Guerillero> can you move it to commons?
[22:12] <Guerillero> the wikipedia article may want to use it
15[22:15] * Daley (~Daley@ Quit
[22:15] <Amgine> Guerillero: Anyone who chooses may dl/ul to commons.
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[22:18] <SMasters> Hello
[22:18] <slon02> 69% is certain failure, right?
[22:18] <slon02> regarding RfAs
[22:19] <SMasters> I really hate how the "edit" links are now next to the sub-headings.
[22:19] <Guerillero> is 75% the threash hold
[22:19] <sonia> SMasters: they're not
[22:19] <sonia> SMasters: have you got some gadget checked?
[22:19] <sonia> or are you, perchance, on de.wp or fr.wp? :P
[22:19] <SMasters> Yes, slon02
[22:19] <Gfoley4> slon02: it's really up to the crat, though
[22:20] <SMasters> somia, I'm not sure, it just happened in the last 8 hours
[22:20] <slon02> ok, thanks
[22:21] <Guerillero> you could be My76Strat slon
[22:22] <SMasters> I wonder why I have the stupid edit thingo? Maybe I need to uninstall the Wikilove gadget
[22:23] <slon02> with him it's barely a majority in support
[22:23] <slon02> although I never comment on other RfAs
[22:23] <Gfoley4> ~54%
[22:23] <Gfoley4> 52
[22:23] <Guerillero> I like the guy but his replies are tl;dr
[22:23] <sonia> they scare me
[22:24] <sonia> takes me far too long to try to understand them
[22:24] <slon02> they just scared me too
[22:24] <Guerillero> they are making me rethink my support
[22:24] <slon02> but I noticed that not a lot of questions were asked in that RfA, or in mine
[22:25] <slon02> well, I mean, there weren't a lot of random and irrelevant questions asked that I've seen before
[22:25] <LiteralKa> invite mc-joe
[22:27] <SMasters> slon02: RfA says: as a general descriptive rule of thumb most of those above ~80% approval pass; most of those below ~70% fail, and the area between is subject to bureaucratic discretion.
[22:27] <Gfoley4> "crat chat"
[22:28] <Gfoley4> e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Lear's_Fool/Bureaucrat_discussion
[22:29] <Guerillero> you have 2-3 bs opposes so it could work out in the end
[22:31] <Amgine> Someone moved it, Guerillero. And it has already been tagged for deletion.
[22:31] <Guerillero> cool
[22:31] <Guerillero> thanks for the info
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[22:32] <Guerillero> i think that my 4th ever edit on wikinews
[22:32] <Peter-C> Gfoley4 is my slave
[22:32] <Peter-C> FYI
[22:32] <Gfoley4> yes
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[22:32] <Amgine> <grin> Well, I never move images to Commons because they delete everything which comes from Wikinews.
06[22:32] * Gfoley4 bows
[22:32] <Peter-C> Gfoley4 should like in NJ like all the cool kids :D
03[22:33] * IShadowed is now known as IS|WoW
06[22:33] * Gfoley4 rolls eyes
[22:33] <Gfoley4> :D
03[22:33] * la_pianista is now known as pianista|brb
[22:34] <SMasters> 12 months to adminship. Is that considered fast?
[22:34] <sonia> now, yes
[22:35] <SMasters> I thought so.
[22:35] <sonia> back in the day, no
[22:35] <sonia> :P
03[22:36] * pianista|brb is now known as la_pianista
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[22:38] <SMasters> Do "weak support" count as half points?
[22:39] <slon02> in general consensus terms, I'd say they would count for less than full support, but it depends on other factors
[22:40] <sonia> ...
[22:41] <SMasters> We count them as half points at [[WP:FPC]]
[22:41] <sonia> SMasters: not really a vote per se, so they don't count as either halfs or wholes
[22:42] <dcoetzee> Amgine: If Wikinews stopped uploading copyvios we wouldn't have a problem :-P
[22:42] <SMasters> So, the bot calculation is not very accurate.
[22:43] <Gfoley4> yeah, the strength of the argument counts
[22:43] <Amgine> dcoetzee: of course, everything uploaded from Wikinews is copyvio. Nothing but. Constant stream of it, in fact.
[22:44] <sonia> SMasters the percentage is an easy guide if it's over 80 or under 60 but otherwise, really, crat decides how happy the community is
[22:44] <dcoetzee> Amgine: And we don't delete everything that comes from Wikinews either :-P
[22:45] <Amgine> I have lists of a couple thousand files, dcoetzee. And those are the ones *not* delinkered.
[22:45] <SMasters> Interesting...
15[22:45] * richardcavell (~richardca@115-64-151-98.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Quit: Have a great day everyone!  :D)
[22:45] <dcoetzee> Amgine: Anything that was deleted was almost certainly deleted because it was a copyvio. If it wasn't, then open an undeletion request.
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[22:46] <Amgine> dcoetzee: I'd rather resolve the root problem, and just stop wikinews from using commons.
15[22:46] * Kingturtle (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingturtle) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.15/20110303024726])
[22:46] <dcoetzee> Amgine: That's not "resolving the root problem", that's ignoring the Foundation's legal obligations.
[22:46] <dcoetzee> You could end up getting Wikinews shut down that way.
[22:47] <Amgine> No. It's solving the problem because Wikinews has needs which are not supported by Commons. Doesn't mean that site is right or wrong, just a different mandate.
[22:48] <dcoetzee> Needs to evade the oversight of people who care about copyright policy?
[22:48] <Guerillero> can the titans please not clash tonight
[22:48] <Amgine> Will happily move the discussion to a more appropriate venue.
[22:49] <SMasters> ITN put up a copyvio image on the front page a few hours ago for the earthquake. That's why there's not a Libyan flag there now.
[22:49] <SMasters> I mean there's a Libyan...
[22:51] <Peter-C> I will bid you all a goodnight
[22:51] <Peter-C> :)
[22:51] <Gfoley4> farewell
06[22:51] * Peter-C pets Gfoley4 and feeds him a Gfoley4 snack
[22:51] <Gfoley4> :D
03[22:51] * Mikemoral is now known as Mikemoral|away
[22:52] <Gfoley4> ooo, another unprotected image on the MP
[22:52] <Guerillero> this is your axe
08[22:55] <derp> Be subtle.
[22:56] <Guerillero> was that at me derp?
08[22:56] <derp> It was directed to anyone :P
[22:56] <Gfoley4> ;P
06[22:57] * Gfoley4 gives derp a derp treat
08[22:57] * derp gives Gfoley4 a Gfoley4 treat
[22:57] <Gfoley4> heh
08[22:58] <derp> Phallus frottage
[22:58] <SMasters> I removed importScript('User:Kaldari/wikilove.js'); and I still have the edit links next to my headings :(
[22:58] <Guerillero> why are they bad?
08[22:58] <derp> SMasters, ctrl+f5
08[22:58] <derp> :)
03[22:59] * Shoplifter (~shoplifte@c80-216-180-59.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #wikipedia-en
[22:59] <SMasters> I did shift + refresh on Firefox
[22:59] <sonia> SMasters: go to your preferences
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[23:00] <SMasters> It's annoying because on the article pages, the edit link is BEFORE the article name
[23:00] <sonia> SMasters: go to gadgets in your preferences
[23:00] <Gfoley4> it's a option in your prefs
[23:00] <Gfoley4> yeah
[23:00] <SMasters> What do I change in prefs?
[23:00] <sonia> User interface gadgets: editing
[23:00] <sonia>  Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page
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[23:00] <sonia> that one
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08[23:01] <derp> good night <3
[23:01] <sonia> under gadgets, under user interface gadgets, SMasters , the bottom one
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Session Close: Fri Mar 11 23:02:26 2011

Saturday, May 7, 2022

An Example of Reality Control by Media: the Russo-Ukrainian War, 2022


Above: Artwork from a Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs PR dossier depicting three cartoon-y Ukrainian soldiers in a roofless JDM-variant Chevrolet LUV/Mazda truck (note the telltale fender-mounted rear view mirrors) with a bed full of coffins with Russian flags. Found on Consortium News.

Above: Redditor spindokto on the Volunteers for Ukraine subreddit, claiming to have been a witness to the Russian missile strike of the Ukrainian military base for mercenaries/"volunteer fighters" at Yavoriv on March 13th. Note the amount of arguments he's getting from other users. Spindokto later deleted his account for reasons now unknown.

Like watching two overlapping films projected onto a wall....

Since the Russian army invaded on February 24th, the mainstream press has gone into a hyperbole mode, claiming that this was the first war in Europe since WWII (forgetting the Yugoslavian civil wars that ran the entire length of the '90s and NATO's bombing of Serbia in 1999), pushing for a no-fly zone that would probably end with (at the very least) a limited nuclear exchange between Russia and the United States, and for endless sanctions on the population of Russia - all the American fast food restaurants except for Burger King closed, European countries and the FBI have been seizing superyachts that are either owned by Russian billionaires ("oligarchs") or allegedly Uncle Vova himself. RT America (Russia Today) was closed down at the beginning of March, leaving only Russian-speaking Americans to see any news from the other side, which left a giant opening for the Ukrainian government to put across its points through Reuters and the Associated Press, and then on to the newspapers and TV/streaming newsmedia companies. Twitter and TikTok helped this immensely, with hoaxes like the "Ghost of Kyiv" fighter ace where the video evidence was taken from a simulator, re-use of footage from previous wars, and years-old old footage of Ahed Tamimi yelling at Israeli border troops was uploaded or linked to. This is now Ukraine's media war, and the English-language Internet is a necessary partner, though after the fakes, you began to see less of the gung-ho attitude, except of certain self-made echo-chambers like r/Ukraine, r/UkraineVideoReport, and Facebook (judging by their willingness to allow anti-Russian hate speech and death threats aimed at Putin).

The "overlapping" element is that the basic facts switch from one side to the other: was there a massacre at Bucha? Wikipedia says "yes", (Russian owned) Sputnik International says "no, it was a propaganda fake". The American site Consortium News says "hey, wait a minute...", asks some basic questions. Who was slain changes -- it was originally 300-plus men of draftable age (16 to 60), Wikipedia has a photo of a dead woman behind a ruined building with no English-language source listed (it turned out to be a 11 minute fragment of a Ukrinform video, thus state news of Ukraine) and no photographer's name.  Mel magazine went after the "Ukrainian armed grandmothers" stories, finding holes and oddities.

The Russians

Because of the total shutdown of online Russian media in the United States, you have to find sources wherever you can discussing the Russian side of the war. Novara Media (UK) did a piece on who is actually fighting Russia's war, and it's contract labor from the provinces, not people from the big cities. The Russian Reader has been useful to me for years, laying out the cultural shifts within the country by translating blog and Facebook posts. That blog has shown the war to be a disaster for common Russians. Matt Taibbi started a Substack site, Russian Dissent that is mostly Boris Kagarlitsky right now, but that might change. Moon of Alabama is a political blog that has been around since the Bush II years, and there has been a running commentary on the war, highly critical of the press. The people who comment on the blog are a bit much. If you can tolerate machine-translations from Russian, Colonel Cassad is out there (and pro-war). There are other blogs of a similar nature, but we don't want to name names. The complete opposite is Evgenia Kovda, writing at Yasha Levine's Substack; she can see the disaster, the un-named others can't.

Is there an ending?

We would argue that the war English-language viewers/readers are shown on mainstream media seems to be pro-Ukrainian because the US government favors that state over Russia, The Russians are getting a similarly-warped picture. The conflict benefits nobody but the weapons manufacturers and a tiny elite in Washington and Moscow, and it is long past due to have somebody step in to negotiate a ceasefire. This blog will come back to this subject later.

Above: Oleg Kuvaev's Masyanya, episode 160, "Wakazashi". Kuvaev now lives in Israel, but he still makes his cartoon, which at one point was on Russian television in the early 2000s. Not anymore, if you watck the cartoon to the end. Hard subtitled.