More annoying Wikimedia-ops IRC logs: Christmas Day 2008

Christmas Day 2008, no rest for the nerdy on Wikimedia-ops' IRC channel. Charles Dickens would be horrified.

Session Start: Thu Dec 25 11:06:55 2008
Session Ident: #Wikimedia-ops
[11:06] * Now talking in #Wikimedia-ops
[11:06] * Topic is 'Welcome to the home of the Wikimedia chanops | Ops in various Wikimedia channels are voiced here | dircbot: [[m:IRC bots/dircbot]] | ASM: [[m:IRC bots/AntiSpamMeta]] | [[m:IRC Group Contacts]] | If you have a private message for ops, please /join #wikimedia-ops-internal | [[m:IRC/wikipedia/Channel operator guidelines]] '
[11:06] * Set by Rjd0060 on Sun Dec 14 16:05:44
[11:06] -ChanServ- [#wikimedia-ops] Welcome to the home of the Wikimedia chanops. Questions, requests and the like can be filed here and we'll try to help. To find an operator for a particular channel, type "/quote chanserv access #channel list".
[11:09] * pill (i=pill@wikimedia/Pill) Quit ("-" )
[11:11] <PeterSymonds> Ionas_Freeman: I have a couple of questions about some of your comments from the log
[11:11] <PeterSymonds> PM coming
[11:16] * Dferg (n=Dferg@Wikimedia/Dferg) has joined #wikimedia-ops
[11:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Dferg
[11:16] * Majorly (n=Alex@wikimedia/Majorly) has joined #wikimedia-ops
[11:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Majorly
[11:17] <DanielB> Britishman, please stop randomly selecting active Wikipedia administrators on IRC and PMing them asking for them to overturn your block. You were blocked because checkuser confirmed that you were a sockpuppet of Chris19910; this cannot and will not be overturned except by the checkuser or the Arbitration Committee
[11:17] <Majorly> my ears were burning
[11:17] <Ionas_Freeman> For once, I concur with DanielB.
[11:17] <Majorly> I am/was being duscussed here?
[11:17] <Ionas_Freeman> Majorly: Yes.
[11:18] <Majorly> oh phew
[11:18] <Majorly> it's only Ionas
[11:18] <Ionas_Freeman> You banned me yesterday, when I was doing nothing wrong.
[11:18] <DanielB> And now I slink back into darkness...
[11:18] <Majorly> I thought I was in trouble :)
[11:19] <Ionas_Freeman> Majorly: You had no reason to ban me. I think you banned me based on a disagreement. Nobody except SwirlBoy said anything when you asked if I was a 'net negative'.
[11:20] <Ionas_Freeman> SwirlBoy is unreliable. You disagree with me on certain things, and because of that, I think you banned me.
[11:20] <PeterSymonds> I was busy, but I am also concerned by some of your comments
[11:20] <Ionas_Freeman> My comments?
[11:20] * DanielB will throw his support behind whichever side gives him the most chocolate.
[11:21] <PeterSymonds> your "healthy dissidence", as you would like to call it, is sometimes just abuse
[11:21] <Cream> Merry Christmas!!!
[11:21] <Ionas_Freeman> Examples please?
[11:22] <Ionas_Freeman> Proper word form is 'dissent' by the way. Cognitive dissonance is something altogether different.
[11:22] <PeterSymonds> Oh, thanks.
[11:23] <Ionas_Freeman> I criticize Wikipedia, and I think that it is good to foster dissent, listen to critics if they have legitimate points, etc. Whitstable is not a legitimate critic of Simple Wikipedia, by the way.
[11:23] <Majorly> unfortunately I can't remember the specific thing that made me ban you (again). Do remember I unbanned you, and I asked you to stop that kind of discussion. You failed to stop
[11:24] <Ionas_Freeman> I did not fail to stop, I thought that I was doing fine. I don't know what I did that was a repetition of that behavior.
[11:24] * DanielB reminds all onlookers that this only applies to the -simple ban, not any others, some of which have been confirmed by the high governance of those respective channels
[11:25] <Ionas_Freeman> Since I cannot think of anything that would be considered abusive, or saddening, or anything like that, I must assume that you did it because of the disagreement about the Pakistan editor, that we had by PM, not in the channel, or that you and SwirlBoy were conspiring secretly.
[11:26] <Ionas_Freeman> My main issue is with the fact that SwirlBoy is a net negative to the whole project.
[11:26] <NotASpy> that sounds perilously close to being a vindictive personal attack on another user. 
[11:26] <PeterSymonds> We shouldn't comment on other users like that, please don't.
[11:26] <DanielB> NotASpy, nothing unusual from this camp...
[11:27] <Majorly> Ionas_Freeman, many think the same thing of yourself
[11:27] <NotASpy> the exact sort of behaviour we really need to try and reduce on Wiki AND on IRC. 
[11:27] <Ionas_Freeman> Majorly described me as that.
[11:27] <Ionas_Freeman> Majorly: I don't think 'the whole project' is what they think that I am not valuable to.
[11:28] <Ionas_Freeman> But SwirlBoy played some pranks on me, and his self-nomination, and the way he interacts with powerful figures, make me think that he just wants power. 
[11:28] <Ionas_Freeman> I don't want power.
[11:28] <PeterSymonds> He's played pranks on me as well; it's not aimed at you directly 
[11:29] <DanielB> PeterSymonds, oh? I thought the entire Wikimedia community was after him...
[11:29] <NotASpy> Ionas_Freeman: dude, it's a project to write stuff, we're not talking about SwirlBoy getting into The Oval Office or something. Keep things in perspective, please. 
[11:31] <Ionas_Freeman> He wants power. This is failing. It is clear, based on his actions, that he wants power.
[11:31] <PeterSymonds> Who cares? Not the issue, even if it was true.
[11:32] <Ionas_Freeman> PeterSymonds: I didn't know that. but it is still clear what he wants.
[11:32] <DanielB> Irrelevant and inappropriate for this venue.
[11:32] <NotASpy> so what if he wants power, it's only Wikipedia. He can't shoot you, arrest you, give you a criminal record or fire you. 
[11:32] <Majorly> so what if he wants it?
[11:32] <Synergy> Ionas_Freeman: its best to leave all of this behind you and focus on the matter at hand
[11:32] * Majorly is off, Wallace & Gromit!
[11:33] <DanielB> Majorly, enjoy your xmas
[11:33] <NotASpy> walkies Majorly 
[11:33] <NotASpy> :p
[11:33] <DanielB> see you soon, if not before NY, have a good one
[11:33] <Ionas_Freeman> Alright. He's a cabal suckup. You don't care that he wants to infiltrate the Wiki, because he seems to be 'on your side'. In a minute, he'll act like he sympathizes with me. He only has selfish motives in mind.
[11:34] <DanielB> "infiltrate"? wtf?
[11:34] <DanielB> this isnt about him
[11:34] <DanielB> this is about what you said
[11:34] <DanielB> stop using this venue to launch attacks on him
[11:34] <DanielB> or you will lose your ability to appeal your -simple ban in this venue
[11:35] <DanielB> focus on your comments and yours only
[11:35] <NotASpy> Ionas_Freeman: infiltrate, it's not the CIA, all we do is write about stuff we know about. There's nothing worth infiltrating. 
[11:35] <PeterSymonds> Agreed.
[11:35] <DanielB> NotASpy, there are some areas worth infiltrating - you and I both work on them - but SwirlBoy doesnt have access to that.
[11:36] <NotASpy> indeed DanielB, but the important areas we work on don't give us any direct control over content or other editors. 
[11:36] <DanielB> indeed
[11:36] <Ionas_Freeman> Alright. I didn't realize that this was completely unrelated, I was explaining, or rather presenting something that, on condition, would make the whole thing make sense, the thing with SwirlBoy trying to ban me, and climb the ranks.
[11:36] <Ionas_Freeman> I shouldn't have said a word.
[11:36] * Majorly_ (n=Alex@wikimedia/Majorly) has joined #wikimedia-ops
[11:36] Clones detected from wikimedia/Majorly: 8 Majorly Majorly_
[11:36] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Majorly_
[11:37] <Ionas_Freeman> I just don't see what I did in the channel that was wrong.
[11:38] <Synergy> this
[11:38] * JulianC93 (n=chatzill@wikipedia/Juliancolton) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]" )
[11:38] <Synergy> this is what you do, in the channel
[11:38] <NotASpy> Ionas_Freeman: there's no "ranks" as you put it. All that happens is the more you're trusted, the more work you get to do. 
[11:38] <Synergy> NotASpy: pack mentality 
[11:39] <Synergy> "ranks"
[11:39] <Synergy> Ionas_Freeman: just take this time to self reflect 
[11:40] <Ionas_Freeman> notaspy: But the unwritten rules say the more you act like you are on the side of a powerful group, in this case Wikipedia-policy-enforcers, the more you get accepted as 'one of them'. I know, this sounds like something ridiculous, but it is true.
[11:41] <PeterSymonds> I've got better things to be doing right now; back later.
[11:41] * PeterSymonds (n=Peter@wikipedia/PeterSymonds) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]" )
[11:41] <Ionas_Freeman> Goodbye. I'm leaving.
[11:41] * Ionas_Freeman (n=ionas_fr@wikipedia/Swusr) has left #wikimedia-ops
[11:41] <Synergy> DanielB: it took a pm, and all of this but i guess i did my best
[11:42] * Majorly (n=Alex@wikimedia/Majorly) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) )
[11:42] <DanielB> yay.
[11:42] <DanielB> thanks
[11:43] <Synergy> force feed O.O
[11:43] <NotASpy> that's the sort of attitude we really need to deal with on Wikipedia, it's putting people off from standing for admin if people go around accusing them of being power hungry. 
[11:43] <Synergy> swirlboy isn't an "innocent" in this situation 
[11:43] <Synergy> so i wouldn't worry too much about an RfA
[11:44] <Synergy> but in general, its the way things go
[11:44] <NotASpy> no, there's also the problem of wannabee admins thinking the role is something far more glamorous than it actually is. 
[11:44] <Synergy> i had the same thing happen at one of my RfA's
[11:44] <Synergy> i'm not as bitter as some might think
[11:45] * DanielB likes his adminship for banning annoying users
[11:45] * Synergy doesn't like the term *wannabe admin*
[11:45] <Synergy> ;p
[11:50] * Cyrius (n=t-bone@cpe-68-201-127-8.gt.res.rr.com) has joined #wikimedia-ops
[11:50] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Cyrius
Session Close: Thu Dec 25 12:01:23 2008