December '18 Grab-Bag

It's been one of those years, so we've run out of time to do any real posting before New Years', so grab-bag it is.

Always remember that Wikipedia is a "Force for Evil".

Proof of the Evil: The Anvil Email, i.e., "that one time FT2 (Kunwar P. Singh) told Poetlister that he was blackmailing him to get him to stop doing things Singh didn't like." Truly fun times back there in September of 2008. Below is the greasy sleaze for all to see:

From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Sat Sep 13 09:25:47 2008 From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:25:47 +0100 Subject: [Arbcom-l] Email to Poetlister / Cato Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809130225k15ec75ccjb0ca613ea5eda35b@mail.gmail.com> 
For information: I have sent an email to Poetlister / Cato. It is hard hitting, and doesn't give much slack. It's CC'ed to cary, who has known in advance the style I plan to write in. If anyone gets a message about it, or needs to discuss, please do so Paul.

Introduction

I have been considering my email to you, which you surely knew to expect. I have also considered your email.




So... please read what follows and believe it. You have no opening for significant negotiation. Despite its tone, this email is aiming for hope. It is a statement how I feel, and advance information on the actions I propose to take and events that may pass, depending whether you voluntarily address these matterst yourself, or whether you show you wish to unrepentantly hang round this place where you have abused so many people's trust and identities already, and keep those you most deceived (your family and on and offline friends) in ignorance of your true abusive activities when online, and therefore it needs extreme measures to obtain forcible removal. The choice is yours. This note is for information, and to assist that decision.


It's also to emphasize the scale of your betrayal. People who trusted and helped, of the project goals, of your work colleagues, innocent transvestites and friends who couldn't complain because of your manipulations, and of your own wife and children. The latter are each victims, but nobody speaks for them and your emails continue to express the hope that you'll continue to deceive them in all your actions. Any normal human would recoil on moral horror at this trail and feel an ethical obligation to compel an honest ending by any reasonable means within the law.




Part 1

Let's start with the latest, "OMG HACKING!!!".

Unfortunately **** (and I think we can drop your nickname here, both John and Aphaia have known who you are since July) but you are the "boy who cried wolf".

You have used proxies nonstop, and you used them after promising FloNight you wouldn't. You have played games, telling this person this thing and that person that thing even after the events of last weekend. You manipulate and you lie and you betray yourself and others you love. You have provided zero evidence this is anything more than another "please pity me!". Anyone can claim that their email is hacked, add some IPs or something they claim was on their computer and try to make it plausible. Suddenly "I was hacked!".

It's almost certainly just today's game. I also note you appear to yourself have hacked (misused without authorization) other people's accounts at WR, according to rumor. So I'm addressing this matter in a separate email.

Part 2

I have watched this case a long time now, and I've watched your behavior carefully. Based on that, I have drawn some conclusions.

My conditions to you are simple. I will state them once, below. Failure to take this seriously will lead to the events changing from your rules and WR's rules, to my rules. Hide one thing now or later, lie or evade once, and the gloves come off. Believe me, you don't want to test that . That's the advantage of being a volunteer rather than an employee. My only formal obligation is my own conscience, and the law.

I guarantee you will prefer to follow this instruction to the last letter, Mike. I also guarantee with zero regret, that any failure of complete compliance will result in pain and quite likely more real and difficult unavoidable results than anything you ever wrote when you pretended to be Taxwoman, because I plan to clean up thoroughly, and to do that I'll probably end up ripping your ego apart.

My reason is simple: compassion, and disgust of abuse. You have done this so long that you don't know how to change it. You are driving yourself to destruction. I'm your last offramp before law enforcement and the press. If you don't take action yourself, you're about to get a helping hand, and if Cary wants my resignation over it, I'll have no compunction handing in my resignation if that's what it takes to get rid of this abusive behavior for good. So don't even start to think anyone has the ability to put pressure otherwise on me. Your wife is a lawyer and by the time this is done, don't think about legal action, because the only legal action will be if she wants rid of you. You have me to deal with, *****, which is exactly what your aliases asked of me in December. And I'm focused and determined. I'm the one non-bribable, non-distractable person in the frame.

My message is blunt, and you can discuss and email others all you like, but right here and now, it's comply or face the consequences. We'll get to that soon enough below.

Part 3

You're intelligent and a manipulator, which means you recognize impossibility to manipulate when you see it. This is it. I know the games have continued since Saturday, and I know you're trying to manipulate John and Aphaia.

I don't often talk in these terms. I don't wish to now, but there are some who understand no language other than force. You have abused others, and your response to others trying to prevent your abuse and to all other communication, has been to do it more, to new victims, with more attempts to hide it at others' cost, and more hardened. Even your response this last 5 days has been manipulation. I don't know any way exists to say "you must not do this harm to our users and members of the public" without a degree of forcefulness and pressure.

You have repeatedly tried to sidestep every chance of honesty and avoid publicly admitting the socking. In doing that you have been continuing to leave people in doubt, which is a form of abuse. By the omission of you admitting this, you have caused prolonged pain to the community. Users like Shalom and Lar took huge effort -- all abused -- to defend you.

There are many web pages that Tarantino and Proabivouac have not found, yet, that confirmed identity, deception, guilt. They also haven't found many other things. They made errors like confusing your wife and sister. They don't know about your children, whose names you put in the public domain and used as covers (which would disgust most people including your family). They don't recognize that the <redacted>' IP means <redacted>'s employer is legitimately fair to be brought into the frame to ascertain just what it extended to. Your word or purported explanations mean nothing, by the way.

Part 4: Conditions

This is the tough bit, that you knew was coming. The conditions. What you have to do to get away from this with anything intact. The bad news is, you have a choice: complete abject confession online to your online games, or exposure in your /offline/ world - it goes "real world" as the only way to kill it. You don't get to keep both. Choose which.

My conditions are actually quite simple and reasonable. Name every sock of yours, on every WMF wiki, publicly and under your "name". Apologize to all you have abused (publicly for wiki users) in a way that we and others here can be 100% sure you have done so. Then (if ever allowed onto any WMF wiki in future) do not ever abuse again, whether in one year or ten, and don't "just experiment" wondering if we'll notice. We will eventually and when we do, we'll have to reopen everything. Those are my requirements (details below).

The flip side, for fair warning:

Lie once, fail on any point (whether known now or found later), evade once, play once more after this is over, and all deals are off. Patience is history. I'll give you exact details how to meet my requirements and that's all. As with "RachelBrown's" idiotic story "adulterers fucking anonymous", I'll tell you what to do, and you either do it or not, but the responsibility is yours either way. You have a deadline below, and I'll repeat everything as often as you need to hear it, and consider concerns all the way till then. One minute after that, gloves come off all the way, without any further warning, starting with <redacted>'s workplace for evidence, and the Department of Health, and probably unavoidably, ending with family or someone will inform the police. Do you actually love your family, or need them? Or are they toys too? Sacrifice your fictions, games and abuses for yourself and them. Put right the abuses you have done over the last 3 years and you may survive, or take complete responsibility for any unfortunate results of forcible removal. I don't know <redacted>, but she seems tough, and people don't like being deceived. I don't know what settlement you'd get, but I bet it won't include the things in real life you care most about. Risk it if you like. Your call. And watch me not minding if it hurts you to put this all right.

I need to be convinced you mean it, but so far by your actions since Saturday, I am only convinced you are into denial and games instead. You are trying to now rather obviously use John and Aphaia who are out on a limb to help you, and still trying to "game" that rather than be honest.

Part 5: Exact requirements

Let me be absolutely clear what you need to do.

1. I expect you to name every one of your WMF wiki socks and WR accounts, publicly with recognizable attribution, on any WMF wiki, as Cato or Poetlister. You'll notice I have carefully avoided saying which socks I know of. Capice?

2. Next, to each person you hurt by stacking or accusations you knew were false, a proper credible apology that says at a minimum "Dear <name>. I apologize for the harm I did by <named action> under the names <list of relevant socks> at <wikipage link>", to each on their talk page. When you agree I'll send you a list. The 'immortality bubble' bursts right here.

3. Last, a 300+ word (I'll count them) formal email apology to each victim whose pictures or names you used for WMF wiki related purposes. That was a disgusting action so this one will need work. These emails are to be cc'ed to anticabal (for WR) and myself + Lar (for WMF communities) to ensure genuine sending. There is also to be a global apology to the Wiki community and WR, for the harm you have done, to post on any WMF wiki under a known "name". Those victims you can't contact, you are to send to Jodie Lynn with the request to forward them. Any who don't reply (eg false addresses), I may request resending to a specified address. You're used to long emails for yourself and you write thousands of edits for your own purposes. Now you can write them for others instead. You may sign them by a pseudonym.

4. I'm then done with you, so long as you're not abusive. If any project will have you, they can.

Yes doing this is going to hurt and humiliate you. I couldn't care less. No, avoiding hurt is not an option in life. You're about to feel every last person you abused over 3 years, right now. You like editing, you don't mind others hurting when you edit, so we're going to edit my way a bit, if you want me to believe in any way that the matter is closed. The lesson here is, a wrong isn't closed or an abuser off the hook till it's put right and they commit not to repeat.

And on a religious basis, you're religious Jewish, right? Judaism matters to you, hypocrite? Your "Yom Kippur" is coming up, when you can't be right with God unless you put right all matters where you have wronged human beings? (Advantages of editing on religion, you learn these odd facts.) That's what this email's about. Last 3 Yom Kippurs you lied when you said you had. This time so help me, you had better not.

Then when that's done you can fuck off to number 74 to reminiscence with <redacted list of family names> and the family. Or did you think I might be guessing at knowing far more than you thought? You put all that information on the web.

By Monday noon EDT (ie Sept 15, 5pm UK, 6pm UTC I think), if you haven't complied with at least #1 and are visibly in progress on #2 and #3, or there's one sock you haven't named, or I ever see one abusive edit after that from you under any name or proxy, the gloves come off for good with no more warning. We can talk as much as you like before then, but when that's over, we're done talking and I move on without further discussion if I don't see a disclosure that I feel is honest and complete.

Failure to name any known sock, will negate my hope that you can be redeemed. Failure to apologize convincingly to any user will negate my hope that you can be redeemed. Failure to cease your squalid abuse again or smell it again in our lifetimes will negate my hope you can be redeemed. Discovery of untruthful or partial disclosure at any later time will negate my hope you can be redeemed. There will be no warnings. My hope you can finally be honest and break this habit of abusing our users and others, is all that keeps me from pursuing this all the way to the end.

Part 6: Other victims

Others have contacted <redacted> and your workplace -- shit happens, too bad, you did expect that, right? As for me, I plan to inform the last major group of victims, your family, not out of malice, but because they are ultimately the only ones who can prevent future abuse here, and recidivism.

You yourself dragged your wife <redacted>, her employer <redacted>, and your son <sigh also redacted> into this by yourself; they are in some ways the biggest victims of all and deserve to no longer be lied to or left ignorant of being taken as victims, as your co-worker Giselle, the beautician Nes, your boss Guy, the boudoir's owner Jodie Lynn whose business you placed at risk, and the rest were.

Part 7: Other matters

You are of course able to pass round this email. I can't stop you. But if any words from it get back to me, or word that someone has been told what I said in a biased manner, I will disclose to the sender the whole email, intact, so they can read the selective citation in context and recognize your gaming. One chance to keep this email private, Mike. Otherwise it'll probably end up posted on WR, full and uncensored, completely beyond my control. But that's your decision. I myself will keep this private between us unless needed, as an incentive to take the chance offered seriously.

I'll also be keeping tabs on you, across the wikis, now and then, in future. If you edit on any WMF project, now or ten years time, I will expect you to immediately give the local checkusers CC checkuser-l a disclosure of your username and a link to an information page I will provide. The local checkusers may set conditions, that's up to them. If you have complied, don't abuse, and multiple accounts aren't in use, all will be well. If you edit without disclosure then I may decide at any time to disclose for you, and there may be serious problems. I'm watchful and patient; I may not say anything for a while before doing so. This is my own personal requirement of you, so I can be sure others will have the information needed to protect their own project from anything but good honest editing.

Summary

Email done. Now get busy. When the deadline is over, if all terms are not fully complied with then the gloves come off without warning, and your family etc, get to know what's up. You dragged your wife <redacted>, her employer <redacted>, and your son <redacted> into this. Same with your co-worker <redacted>, the beautician <redacted>, your boss <redacted>, the boudoir's owner <redacted> whose business you placed at risk, and the rest. You have done some good, but you hurt countless users here, and caused unknown numbers of others to leave or be seen unfairly. They and others have the right to know, if there is any likelihood it will continue.

Believe me, it will be better to own up on-wiki, apologize, and take your medicine online, than have it come to meet you in your offline life. It's numbered 1 to 4 above and now it's time to get going on them.

You may call me by nickname, or by the name I use at Arbcom, or the name I use at OTRS. Any is fine.

***

Wonderfully charming, yes? FT2 was never punished for this scam. Proof that the WMF is too chickenshit to face the unpaid "administrators" of the site.


Eric Barbour has been running a thread of "Crap or Questionable Articles" which is now 12 pages long. Also check out his thread on articles Wikipedia should have but doesn't. It's truly a monument to the loss of focus and editors that Wikipedia has been suffering from for the last ten years.


That's all we've got for now, have a Happy New Year!

Guest Post: CrowsNest on Wikid77

Yep, he's back for more. Taken from the Wikipedia Sucks board.

So, there's an established Wikipedia editor called Wikid77, who has for years made it a real pain in the ass to do the very necessary task of monitoring Jimbo Wales' talk page. Why? Because he just keeps posting long streams of total nonsense. They've tolerated it for years, because, well, Wikipedia.

But finally come to a head. Someone has finally noticed some of his comments are racist, so they have blocked him. And so, at long last, Wikid77 has proved useful for the critic cause. Because the ensuing review.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=873830411#Wikid77

.......has exposed many of Wikipedia's deep flaws......

1. How long it took.

Wikid77 has been a time wasting bullshit spreading pest for literally years, on the most watched page on Wikipedia. And this certainly wasn't the first racist thing he said, not by a long shot. With that in mind, take a look at how long it has gone on, and how many racist things he has said, and compare that against the way the Wikipediots are now acting like they're all hardliners against this sort of thing.

And don't be thinking they simply didn't notice until now, because as has been pointed out, Wikid77 has been warned by Administrators several times for his his problematic beliefs. Which begs the question, why? If an instant block on a first offence is seen as too draconian, then surely you only give a racist one warning that their beliefs are unacceptable on Wikipedia? But they have issued him several warnings. And bear in mind, it is hardly unusual for racists to be blocked instantly and without warning on Wikipedia - the difference being they are not established editors, their offence is usually their first post.

2. How they handle racists

So, they're finally done with warning him. What now?

Believe it or not, a sizeable number of editors are considering not banning the racist. Instead, they either want him to just be blocked for six months, then be allowed to plead his case for a return as a reformed character.

Worse, some want him to remain, and only deal with his racism by preventing him from speaking about race. Seriously.

Even more worse, some are acting like his past record of positive (or simply moderately useful) contributions, or indeed the perceived lack thereof at least nowadays, affects the decision making process here as far as what they do with him here and now, with his racism clearly evident.

3. Banned for their beliefs?

There is a minor debate as to whether or not he is being banned for his beliefs, since a side-effect of them not really editing any articles anymore, means he isn't affecting article content. This gives some people pause.

How is this even a debate? Certain beliefs are so objectionable, the people who hold them should not be allowed to voice them anywhere on Wikipedia. As they are fond of pointing out, there is no Right to Free Speech on Wikipedia. No direct harm to the articles is necesary. Their speech is the harm.

It amazes me there are still people confused about this. There was me thinking that due to Guy Chapman's recent efforts, Wikipedia is a place where you can be banned merely for uttering "I believe Trump was sent to us By God" (bannable both for the expression of religious belief and the unacceptable political stance of uncritical support for Trump). An equal opportunities dick, Guy Chapman also wants to ban people who do not agree with the premise that gay marriage is something reasonable people can disagree about, which of course means that people who consider it a matter of human rights, are also bannable.

As stupid as those Chapman positions are, as wholly offensive to large swathes of people they must be, the fact they got wide community support surely demonstrates that wherever the bar is set now, it should mean that at least racism is well within the bannable merely for expressing it zone? But amazingly, there are still a few hold outs. They don't get warned or blocked. Free Speech?

Oh, and because this is Wikipedia, this side debate was of course moot anyway - as had already been pointed out, Wikid77 had been editing articles in furtherance of his beliefs. But of course those people talking about "banned for his beliefs" either didn't read the full debate, or did but ignored it. Free Speech?

4. What does *this* button do?

There's not much point banning racists, it you don't also delete their racism from view. That seems self-evident, right? Apparently not to the Wikipedians. At time of writing, all the examples given of Wikid77's unacceptable speech, are all still visible on the Wikipedia pages they were made on, or their archives.

It seems clear, from Jimmy to Guy Chapman, the high borne models, right on down to all the other lesser Wikipedians, their reaction to racism is to express their disbelief, mock the person, but crucially, they never seem capable of deleting it.

To be clear, for obvious reasons, it is firm Wikipedia policy that deleting racism is one of the few acceptable exceptions to the general rule against not altering other people's comments. And if the whole post wasn't racism, then you can snip the offending bits out, replacing it with "(redacted)".

To be even clearer, this isn't an Administrator only activity. This is not technical deletion, this is simply editing it out, something any Wikipedian can do ("Anyone Can Edit"). Well, except newbies - on pages like Jimmy's talk page, they aren't trusted to be able to spot racism and remove it. That is maybe a stance they should revisit?

If it was "grossly" offensive, it should also be permanently deleted from the page history (i.e not discoverable even by a curious person wanting to find out what got redacted). That is an Administrator only action, but it takes five seconds to get hold of one to request it. Obviously, all racism is grossly offensive, but it's not really clear all of Wikipedia's editors and Administrators agree.

5. Hypocrites Rule.

Jumping up and down all over this, are some of Wikipedia's biggest hypocrites.

Administrator Iridescent is incensed that Jimmy didn't properly manage his own page, calling him out for "personally tolerating racists". Which is odd, as he knows as well as anyone, that it is not really considered his page to curate, like a regular user talk page, it is seen as more of an unofficial village square. He should be familiar with the concept, as Iridescent hypocritically claims this same quasi-official status for his own talk page, but only only because doing so allows him to do and host things which would otherwise violate policy if it were an official noticeboard, and to bizarrely claim people do not have the right to censor it. This is all documented in our forum thread on him. Indeed, a visit to Iridescent's talk page means you will be served with a changing array of assorted offensive imagery (it rotates automatically), some of it exceedingly tasteless. NSFW, and then some.

Naturally, when someone exposed Iridescent's hypocrisy, pointing out he hadn't ever warned Wikid77 for his racism despite being there at the time, even now claiming he thought about doing it (ooh, tough!) he of course blew right past that. Because his interest in this debate isn't racism or Wikipedia, it is Jimmy, part of a very very long running feud (Iridescent is basically jealous Jimmy is still seen as a figurehead, and is pissed that the WMF thinks his editing is shit). Despite all that, Iridescent is never and will never be blocked for blatant attacks like that and all the other shit, much less have his status as an Administrator questioned.

In a bizarrely Kafkaesque scene, Iridescent even tried to use the example of Jimmy previously objecting to Wikid77's blocker Cullen's speech on his own talk page, and the ensuing flame war and rallying of support for Cullen's right to insult who he likes where he likes, as evidence Jimmy does want to police his own page. All documented on our forum here......

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/vie ... f=19&t=762

It all begs the question, after that shameless episode, what business did Cullen have blocking anyone who is so closely associated with Jimmy? Could it have been the latest act in his attempt to undermine the failing King? The fact he didn't want to say anything in the ensuing debate, that he was happy that the vast majority of Wikipedians were horrified Jimmy was hosting a racist, and he was happy to let his block speak for itself. It does.

There's also Administrator Drmies. He's all over the shop, having a moment. He has finally realised he shouldn't just be expressing disbelief at racists, he should be blocking them too. Which is odd. As documented in this forum, Drmies is so keen to block racists, he often misfires, targeting innocent people, his itchy trigger finger being influenced by emotions induced from his personal involvement with the supposed victim. What Drmies is after, is to ensure everyone knows he is anti-racist. As if anyone could escape the fact.

These people think they're being clever. Their motivations and reasons for doing what they do, are as transparent as those of a toddler. As with toddlers, they are entirely selfish and self-interested.

On a more general point, do you see how many people are gleefully broadening out the theme? Not only are racists unwelcome, so are bigots, nationalists, homophobes. How very decent of them. Still no mention of sexism as a specific issue (included in bigotry I guess), but hey, baby steps. It is strange though. Because to me, as well as the rampant sexism, and the obvious Western systemic bias, Wikipedia also seems like a place where homophobes are openly tolerated.....

https://www.wikipediasucks.co/forum/vie ... f=18&t=582

As was confirmed by the endorsement of Chapman's Diktat.

Ironically, there is one mention of sexism, by Iridescent. But since his best mate is one of the biggest woman haters on Wikipedia (also a sworn enemy of Jimmy), and given all the other nonsense views Iridescent is guilty of airing in that debate, I am confident the women of Wikipedia won't be seeing it as anything other than a throwaway comment, by someone who has learnt the right words but has no intention of being the right person.

6. Compounding harm

It always amazes me, the Wikipedians inability to restrain themselves. Consider the post by Administrator Boing! said Zebedee (talk) made at 15:24, 14 December 2018 (UTC). Why is he repeating the racist abuse and ideas, and in that very public of pages? Wikipedia has people like this everywhere, white dudes desperately trying to appear woke, failing to realise the most helpful and indeed respectful thing they can do, is stop using racist terms and spreading their messages, even when they are trying to express how woke they are.

7. Painfully angry

Related to the above, there is the hilarious sight of several Wikipedians using profane language to express just how MAD they are that there is still racism in the world. "Racists go fuck themselves". Sad fucks. But this is just another example of how their commitment to civility goes right out the window when they feel it is justified. They have brains the size of peas, they really do.

Conclusion.

All told, the case of Wikid77 exposed what anyone who watches Wikipedia for very long, already knows. Wikipedia's approach to racism is weak, soft, confused, compromised, hypocritical, illogical, and often totally corrupted by their petty internal squabbles and sheer desperation.

None of this is fixable. The problem is the community. And their Administrators are by no means an exception, there is no cream in this crop.

I mean, it could be fixed, by normal, intelligent people, although arguably they wouldn't be making these mistakes in the first place if "Wikipedian" was a by-word for a normal, intelligent, person.

The only answer to racism in Wikipedia, is getting rid of Wikipedia.

Hasten The Day.

The problems of writing about Essjay....

If the reader looks through the archives they might find the unfinished post "Essjay, part One" which was originally started in December of 2017, then copypasted into the site this April and the December original was deleted. Why?

I could give a string of weak excuses: lack of time, the relentless press of new things to write about, guest posts, blah blah blah. The truth is, was, and shall forever be that, unlike the crew at the original Wikipedia Review and the EDniks who wrote about him (especially the people who originally wrote this page), I only know Essjay from the "historical" records. Thus I feel no real urgency in writing about the guy when there are other, less-explored issues to discuss. This blog seems to be the only one trying to do a monthly criticism of Wikipedia, the Wikimedia Foundation, their hangers on, and all the odd skeletons that have been buried by Wales' crew. We are not trying to "clean house" on Wikipedia to get back into the good graces of the non-entities who run the WMF - we stand outside the machine like Noam Chomsky or George Orwell, trying to lay out how the machine works and for whom. The author of this blog is on the (pointless) global ban list only because we showed up to a Wikipedia event under an assumed name to take photos, interview people on camera, etc., material which would have been sent to Eric Barbour for his files. Instead I was banned at the door and chased through a public library. There is no goodness nor charity from the likes of James "General Tso's House of MSG" Alexander we expect to ever receive.

I will finish the Essjay pieces, just not now.

September 11, 2008 in the Wikipedia Ops IRC channel

We not only have the regular IRC channel logs, but logs for the Ops channel as well. Here is what they were talkig about on the 7-year anniversary of  September 11th. Consider this "raw information."

Session Start: Thu Sep 11 18:23:30 2008

Session Ident: #Wikimedia-ops
[18:23] * Now talking in #Wikimedia-ops
[18:23] * Topic is 'Welcome to the home of the Wikimedia Chan-Ops.  | 

Ops in various Wikimedia channels are voiced here. | dircbot: [[m:IRC bots/dircbot]] 

| ASM: [[m:IRC bots/AntiSpamMeta]] | [[m:IRC Group Contacts]] 

| If you have a private message for ops please /join #wikimedia-ops-internal 

| Give your opinion about the public logging rule at http://tinyurl.com/wp-logging2 

| Ops: see http://tinyurl.com/wikiopsmtg#'
[18:23] * Set by Martinp23 on Sat Sep 06 15:40:23
[18:23] -ChanServ- [#wikimedia-ops] Welcome to the home of the Wikimedia chanops. 

Questions, requests and the like can be filed here and we'll try to help. 

To find an operator for a particular channel, type "/quote chanserv access #channel list".
[18:23] -ChanServ- [#wikipedia] We are currently looking for the opinions of channel users about the 

public logging rule: http://tinyurl.com/wp-logging
[18:23] -ChanServ- [#wikipedia-en] We are currently looking for the opinions of channel users about

 the public logging rule: http://tinyurl.com/wp-logging
[18:35] * Not_the_NSA (n=R@wikipedia/R) Quit ("My pet rock has more experience than Sarah Palin."#)
[18:38] * agkwiki (n=agkwiki@wikipedia/AGK) Quit ("I flipped a three-sided coin; it came up "no consensus.""#)
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[19:09] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Prodego
[19:11] * Tarawneh is now known as Tarawneh_away
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[19:39] -dircbot:#wikimedia-ops- Ban[#7090#] #%*!*@gateway/tor/*# in ##Wikimedia# set 

by #Rjd0060!n=Rjd0060@wikimedia/Rjd0060# on #2008-07-14 15:03:04# 

for #"re-set old ban with dircbot recording"# which affected ## has been removed. 

It expired on #2008-09-11 23:39:14#. It was removed by #dircbot!n=dircbot@unaffiliated/philkc/bot/dircbot#
[19:41] <Rjd0060> hmm
[19:42] <Rjd0060> I don't know if we want that one re-set or not
[19:42] <Rjd0060> It doesn't matter to me, either way
[19:44] * Cream is now known as Cream|Wii
[19:54] * Rjd0060 is now known as Rjd|away
[19:54] <WaRpAtH> O_O
[19:54] <WaRpAtH> for #wikimedia, no
[20:08] * Prodego (n=Prodego@wikipedia/Prodego) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)#)
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[20:54] * Neskaya tries to debate where the line between "discussion" and "troll" is.
[20:55] <Neskaya> Krimpet: Where is the line between "discussion" and "troll"?
[20:55] <Krimpet> Neskaya, I dunno. :/ I don't think he's a troll, just a guy with stupid ideas
[20:55] * WaRpAtH draws the line 
[20:56] <Neskaya> shakespeareperson is on my ignore list, again.
[20:56] <Neskaya> That's about the best way to deal with him
[20:56] <Krimpet> oh, him
[20:57] <Neskaya> Yes, him.  He's really the one who's on my nerves this whole discussion, and has stupider ideas than oh ...
[20:57] <Neskaya> Anyone except lycurgus person.
[20:58] <Krimpet> I thought you meant Lycurgus, who was saying transgenders are really "deluded homosexuals"
[20:58] <Krimpet> either way, yeah, that channel frequently overflows in fail. -_-
[20:58] <Neskaya> That person is on my nerves too, but shakespearefan got on my nerves /first/ y'know?
[20:58] <Neskaya> (I had made a point of not outing myself, not that it matters, but for simplicity's sake?)
[21:05] * Neskaya hugs Krimpet (sorry about the entire conversation being made of fail.)
[21:06] <Krimpet> wasn't your fault, Neskaya. :)
[21:07] <Neskaya> Of course, the moment you left the conversation resumed.
[21:07] <Neskaya> ^__^
[21:10] <Neskaya> They're all made of fail, which means that I'm going to go and actually eat dinner of some sort now!
[21:14] * Cream|Wii is now known as Cream
[21:15] * Neskaya bothers Martinp23!
[21:16] <Neskaya> Martinp23: ping.
[21:17] <Neskaya> Martinp23: When you get back, time for ops meeting is when?  The first proposed date is tomorrow so yeah.
[21:17] <Cream> Neskaya, Martinp23 is gone sleeping
[21:17] -Martinp23- I'm sorry, but I'm away (I'm away (screen detached).  All messages are logged, and I'll get back to you.)
[21:17] * Not_the_NSA (n=R@wikipedia/R) Quit ("My pet rock has more experience than Sarah Palin."#)
[21:17] <Cream> can i take a message?
[21:17] <Neskaya> Cream: I figured something as much.  I'll talk to him when he wakes up or tomorrow or something.
[21:18] <Cream> Ah ok, i'm his secretary
[21:18] * Neskaya laughs.
[21:18] <Cream> :P
[21:18] * Cream is now known as Rickroll
[21:19] * Rickroll is now known as Cream
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[21:57] * Cream is now known as Cream|Wii
[22:14] * Neskaya (n=kite@wiktionary/neskaya) Quit ("dinner and some stuff bbl"#)
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Session Close: Thu Sep 11 22:27:05 2008

Session Start: Thu Sep 11 22:27:05 2008
Session Ident: #Wikimedia-ops
[22:27] * Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Sep 11 22:27:16 2008

Session Start: Thu Sep 11 22:27:36 2008
Session Ident: #Wikimedia-ops
[22:27] * Now talking in #Wikimedia-ops
[22:27] * Topic is 'Welcome to the home of the Wikimedia Chan-Ops. 

| Ops in various Wikimedia channels are voiced here. | dircbot: [[m:IRC bots/dircbot]] 

| ASM: [[m:IRC bots/AntiSpamMeta]] | [[m:IRC Group Contacts]] | If you have a private message for ops please /join #wikimedia-ops-internal 

| Give your opinion about the public logging rule at http://tinyurl.com/wp-logging2 

| Ops: see http://tinyurl.com/wikiopsmtg#'
[22:27] * Set by Martinp23 on Sat Sep 06 15:40:23
[22:27] -ChanServ- [#wikimedia-ops] Welcome to the home of the Wikimedia chanops. Questions, requests and the like can be filed here and we'll try to help. 

To find an operator for a particular channel, type "/quote chanserv access #channel list".
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[23:10] -dircbot:#wikimedia-ops- Ban[#8355#] #*!*@unaffiliated/bol# in ##Wikipedia# set by #Ceiling_Cat!n=Raul654@wikipedia/Raul654# on 

#2008-09-12 03:09:44# for #""# which affected #BoL!n=BoL@unaffiliated/bol# has been removed. It expired on #2008-09-13 03:09:44#. 

It was removed by #Ceiling_Cat!n=Raul654@wikipedia/Raul654#
[23:12] * Cyrius (n=t-bone@cpe-68-201-122-33.gt.res.rr.com) Quit ("Where are we going, and what's with the handbasket?"#)
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##Wikipedia# set by #Ceiling_Cat!n=Raul654@wikipedia/Raul654# on #2008-09-12 03:16:09# for 

#""# which affected #WaRpAtH!i=VRS@wikimedia/Cometstyles ViRuSbOy!i=chatzill@wikimedia/Cometstyles# has been removed. 

It expired on #2008-09-13 03:16:09#. It was removed by #Ceiling_Cat!n=Raul654@wikipedia/Raul654#
[23:18] * ViRuSbOy is now known as Gambit
[23:19] * Neskaya (n=kite@wiktionary/neskaya) Quit ("later folks."#)
[23:20] <AntiSpamMeta> #04High# risk threat [##wikipedia#]: #Exploiter# - ctcp-dcc; ping Martinp23, 

Gracenotes, Eagle-101, troubled, Daniel-Bryant, Cbrown1023, Mbimmler, RichiH, Fastlizard4, TheLetterE, tomaw, ST47, Krimpet, 

dave2, bumm13, Sean_William, seanw, quanticle, Snowolf, kloeri, alindeman, Warpath, wimt, Ral315, Pilotguy, Karlprof, SWATJester, 

mike42, AndrewB, Cometstyles, Fabexplosive, Rjd0060, stylus, Mitchell, njan, skenmy, Golbe
[23:20] * uberpenguin (n=jp7701@cpe-098-026-182-245.triad.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)#)
[23:20] * ST47 (n=st47@wikipedia/ST47) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)#)
[23:20] <Gambit> :~(
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[23:20] <Snowolf> I need irssi back :D
[23:23] <Cream> hey Snowolf :D
[23:23] <Cream> ltns
[23:23] <Gambit> Snowolf: thast w00t :P
[23:23] <Cream> stfu Gambit :)
[23:23] <Gambit> the evil botnet troll/flooder guy :D
[23:23] <Cream> go choke 
[23:23] <Gambit> :~(
[23:23] <Cream> Gambit, on my network only
[23:24] <Cream> not here anymore
[23:37] * Cream is now known as [Cream]
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Session Close: Thu Sep 11 23:59:59 2008

Back to Reddit's The_Donald subforum: the alleged Russian connection

For reasons that are not discussed openly, the Donald John Trump subreddit, r/The_Donald
has survived a series of subreddit purges, such as the end of the Million Dollar Extreme forums and QAnon forums for being shot through with Alt-Right "content" (cartoons, links to websites, racist comments in code words, etc.) and promoting crazy conspiracy theories in r/the_greatawakening and the other QAnon subreddits. If Redditors want that sort of material, VISUP is a better site for it.

As reported by The Verge and Buzzfeed News, The_Donald has been taking articles from the so-called St. Petersburg "Fake News" factory Internet Research Agency through the websites brutalist.press and USA Really, the latter of which Buzzfeed News states is owned by the "Civic Chamber of the Russian Federation", a "civil society institution." The initial spark of these articles was a post of the subreddit r/FuckTheAltRight by a user with the handle DivestTrump; both the article was deleted, then saved through archive.fo while DivestTrump was hounded off Reddit and then returned under the same name.


[post under construction.]

Art Madrid is still mayor of La Mesa....on Wikipedia

Something found while wandering through en.Wikipedia, a tiny reversion war over the BLP of Art Madrid, former mayor of the city of La Mesa (1990-2014), though if you read the "biography of a living person" article on Wikipedia, it seems to be locked in 2011 - no mention of Madrid's loss to La Mesa Councilman and grade school teacher Mark Arapostathis in 2014. In fact, right now it is little more than a stub with a photograph of Madrid dating to 2005 as you can see below.

Art Madrid (born about 1935), a La Mesa, California resident since 1958, has held elective office in La Mesa since 1981. Elected as a City Councilman from 1981 to 1990, Art was then elected Mayor of La Mesa, California in 1990 and then re-elected in 1994, 1998, 2002, 2006 and 2010.^[1]

In 1994, Mayor Madrid gained national and international attention when he started a highly successful program of publishing the names and pictures of individuals arrested for prostitution in his community. In 1995 the American Society of Public Administrators selected Art as San Diego County's Outstanding Elected Official. San Diego Magazine selected him as one of their "50 People to watch in 2000."

Art has served as chair of the San Diego Association of Governments, SANDAG. He also serves on State Board of the League of California Cities and was President of the San Diego Division of the League. He has served as President of the California Council of Governments (CALCOG).

References
Official Web Site at La Mesa City^{[permanent dead link]}

                  Art Madrid, mayor of La Mesa, California. (Photo by Kevin Tostado, 2005)

This is all that is left after a battle over the article went on and off from 2008 to 2014, as can be seen in the revision history page. Because of the battle, you will not hear about the various controversies concerning Art Madrid's 24 years in office as mayor, because IPs like 68.7.188.57 consider any discussion of the issues like this: Removed scandal section. Unecessary and rude. [typo as original] Would it shock anybody that 68.7.188.57 geolocates to La Mesa if you run it through the IP2location.com system? And what is it that offended them so much? This:

On February 20, 2008, Mayor Madrid and a La Mesa city finance department employee, Trisha Turner, age 35, were found in a state of [[drunkenness]] on a city street at about 10:30pm. City police understood that the two were heavily intoxicated, yet city police officers, in a move which has drawn fierce criticism, then quietly returned the two to their respective residences without further legal action.<ref>[http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20080228-9999-1n28policies.html ''San Diego Union'' article of Feb. 28, 2008.]</ref>

This one small, slightly-inaccurate paragraph (the newspaper cited has been the San Diego Union-Tribune since 1992) has been batted about like a Badminton shuttlecock since it was put in there by Piece.of.eight on February 28, 2008, the day it was reported by the Union-Tribune. 68.7.188.57 removed the third or fourth time the paragraph (under the section "Scandal") was inserted into the article. By the end of the battle right before the elections in November of 2014, the "Scandal" section had just become a paragraph of "controversies":

Madrid's tenure as Mayor has not been without controversy. In 2004 he was accused of hit and run following an incident at Norm's Bar http://www.10news.com/news/man-claims-la-mesa-mayor-involved-in-hit-and-run. In 2006, he was criticized for failing to apologize after directing the City Attorney to threaten a local man, Chris Tanner with litigation following Tanner's public testimony at a Council meeting. http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060218/news_1n18tanner.html and in 2008 was found laying on the sidewalk near his home after drinking with a City employee http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2008/02/mayor-found-drunk-public-sidewalk/

Two IPs batted this back and forth, 68.7.85.225 for the inclusion and 72.199.170.60 against. After Madrid was defeated in the polls November 2014, the last two edits were done by 'bots KasparBot and InternetArchiveBot in 2016. If you do a geolocation of both of those IPs they either locate to La Mesa or the ourskirts of El Cajon (a city east of La Mesa). Nothing is outside of San Diego county, and nobody edited the BLP from the city of San Diego - it was totally a local affair, if you ignore the occasional 'bots sticking things in, and possible sockpuppets like Classicrockfan42.

Viewpoint of a Local Person

Simple search engine searches during the years of the edit war could have turned up the articles that were mentioned, plus previous issues, like how Art Madrid and Bob Filner were targeted by Lemon Grove's lone teenaged Klansman and San Diego State student Alex Curtis with hate mailings and a deactivated hand grenade on Madrid's lawn in the late 1990s. There's no word about the attempt to run a Property and Business Improvement District in the La Mesa downtown area, a move which predated the state government's killing of redevelopment agencies in 2011. Madrid's inability to get the PBID off the ground may have cost him his seat from residential voters, or the idea of a PBID was a bridge too far for local businesspeople, it was never made clear in any local media why Madrid was voted out. I can say that the scuttlebutt in "the Village" was that Madrid was writing a memoir of his time on the city council and as mayor, but no such book has turned up. I don't see the point to why the Art Madrid  BLP should remain stuck years out of date, it should be updated and all the deleted material placed in it, but that seems to be too commonsensical for Wikipedia in 2018.

Guest Post: CrowsNest on how Robin Leach was Declared a Suicide by Wikipedia

This was originally a comment on the Wikipedia Sucks! messageboard.

The Two-Minute Suicide of Robin Leach

by CrowsNest

Attack them where most expect it!

On 24 August, there were 104,706 page views of the Wikipedia article for Robin Leach. Why? He died, of course.

On that day, for two minutes, instead of the reliably sourced cause of death, a stroke, the article apparently said he shot himself.

War, what war?

Now, if you can believe it, the good people of Wikipediocracy have spent today claiming it is not a big deal. Beeblebrox, Poetlister, AndyTheGimp, all take the view this is somehow not an issue. Certainly not one worth reporting in the media.

http://archive.is/hMdEz

From tiny acorns

Their lazy assumption seems to be that being up for two minutes means it was never seen. Well, on that day, it seems reasonable to assume it could have been seen by around 70 people. And that's on the pretty shaky assumption that those 100,000+ views were spread out evenly right across the day and night. Here it is relevant to note the death was announced on Twitter at 14.41 UTC, the vandalism occurred at 16.07 UTC. So 416 people seems like a more accurate guesstimate, if assuming 50,000 views in the first two hours. Not bad for 120 seconds of vandalism.....

Wikipedia, you know.....the encyclopedia!

They also lazily assume that everyone in the world understands Wikipedia can be vandalised, and indeed that it is officially not to be assumed to be accurate at all, ever, so you should not repeat what you find there on Twitter or Facebook without first checking the source. The fact that one of the three sources included in the article for the cause of death, a Forbes article, has been viewed just 622 times, puts that assumption into perspective.

Sick, sick, sick

And so we arrive at a familiar conclusion. Rather than sympathizing with the potential victims of Wikipedia, and it really isn't a stretch to see how those sort of numbers as a first seed quantity, could start a rumour that spreads far enough to affect friends and family in their time of grief, these pathetic fanboys who so laughingly like to think of themselves as critics, seek to excuse Wikipedia, absolve it of all blame. As if nobody within the cult has ever even uttered the words Do No Harm.

J'Accuse!

Not satisfied with that, these sick bastards have all but convinced themselves that the only feasible explanation for a reporter picking up on this story, is that they were the source of the vandalism. Their story was dropped at 16.39 UTC, and as they bizarrely condemn her for, it only included two lines and a screencap about the vandalism, the rest being standard obituary type stuff.

Anyone for cake?

As usual, they want to have it all ways. They condemn her for not writing enough about the vandalism, while arguing she should have written nothing at all. They argue she is a lazy hack who doesn't know one end of Wikipedia from the other, while also alleging she knows enough to knock up hoax pages using untraceable IPs, screen cap them, add them to her piece, all in under an hour, and be confident she would not be found out, her career ruined.

If she knows her way around Wikipedia and is generally good at her job, the timeline and story content is feasible. It would mean they have believe she is knowledgeable and good at her job.....

Fumbling in the dark

Worst of all, they want people to think they are Wikipedia experts, when they couldn't even find the vandalised version in the article history. WTF? Never heard of WikiBlame? Even if not, the vandalism was only the 23rd edit made to the article that day. You can't do twenty three mouse clicks before you publicly accuse journalists of making shit up? And then when someone shows you the publicly visible page anyone in the world can see, you accuse them of creating it themselves?

A love that dare not speak its name

And so yet again, we are at a familiar place. Anonymous cowards like this, making public accusations like that about people whose real names are easily found, with sexist overtones all round. All because they can't stand the thought of Wikipedia being criticised, because they love it so much.

To the shitmobile!

Beeblebrox loves it so much, he even emailed the reporter to question her. I'm guessing he didn't address her as "that hack", as he already had on Wikipediocracy. Rather than be grateful she bothered to reply, he used the content of that mail to launch further attacks on her professional standards. He of course did not reveal the full contents of the email, so we are apparently meant to trust this nerk that he is accurately summarising her message.

The full story?

We can assume Beeblebrox didn't furnish her with the details that might have allowed her to update her story. Namely that it seems it was only due to her story that anyone in Wikipedia thought to even delete that piece of vandalism in such a way that it could not be seen even in an old version, i.e. it couldn't be screencapped and/or passed off as legitimate information from Wikipedia.

Sack the janitors

By the time Beeblebrox got around to that, said old revisions had been publicly accessible for just over two days. Keen observers will note this was not his first thought on hearing about this vandalism today, he first had the idea to publicly trash the journalist and send her an email, and only then, clean up Wikipedia's mess.